How to Build Meaningful Friendships and Create Authentic Connections -55

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:04

Well, hey there, my friends. What is happening? It seems as though we are living in a world right now that is more connected than ever. Right? We can reach anyone, anywhere, anytime, and yet we feel more disconnected than ever before. And my guest this week, Kat Vellos, is on a mission to really support us in your mission to create more meaningful connections in your life and in the world because to me, that is what brings joy and purpose to our lives. She is the author of We Should Get Together. She's also an incredible speaker and facilitator. And this week's conversation is really diving into the art of how do we build and nurture friendships and community as adults and seeing it as a skill set to build not just something that happens to us or doesn't happen. We are going to dive into this powerful conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:02

I cannot wait for you to join us on the inside. Let's do this. Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:49

Let's dive in. Or this week, I am hanging out with Kat Bellows, who is a speaker, facilitator, author of We Should Get Together and a phenomenal community builder. And I just wanna welcome you to the show, Kat. Thanks for being here.

Kat Vellos [: 00:02:09

Thanks so much for having me, Marli. So great to be with you. Looking forward to an awesome conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:14

I love it. Me too. Well, I think we both have similar passions around building meaningful, deep, authentic community and connection. And in this world, sometimes it can feel really lonely. Right? Kind of this loneliness epidemic that we're we've been hearing about. I would love to hear to take us back to what really what brought you to writing a book called We Should Get Together and doing this work that you do in the world around helping people find and build community.

Kat Vellos [: 00:02:46

Taking it back to we're gonna fast forward and reverse to twenty fifteen, ten years ago. I was working every day as a qualitative researcher and user experience designer. And, in my personal life, I was also new to the Bay Area, so trying to build community, making new friends, starting almost from scratch. And kept hearing a common refrain from people that I was frequently meeting in the social setting, which was they were like, oh, it's really hard to make friends or, like, you know, I make friends and they move away and I have to start over. Like, it's really hard to get community going. As a problem solver in the world of user experience design and qualitative research, I I couldn't let go of that observation, which was like people were repeatedly saying that it was difficult to make friends and community in their adulthood. And the other reason why that really caught my ear is because I'm someone who's always really valued friendship and community. It's been deep, deep place of belonging and purpose for me and meaning. And so I also was like the folks I was talking to. I was like, yeah. This is a little bit more difficult than it's been in the past. Like, why is that? And it's really important to me. And it's really important to me that all these wonderful people that I'm meeting have that.

Kat Vellos [: 00:03:50

They shouldn't go without it. And so I took the same skills I was using in my day job to apply them to the question of, like, how can we make friendship easier for people? Because it should not be this difficult in adulthood to make friends and build community. And so that was what led me to do a lot of the qualitative research interviews that eventually led to the creation of the book. I didn't say like, oh, I'm gonna write a book about this. I definitely did not do that. I was just gathering the research and looking into a lot of the quantitative studies about human connection and about how French would form and thrive, what's going on with this loneliness epidemic, which was mentioned as far back as 1980. It's not a new thing. And really looking into, like, historical data around connection and trust and belonging in The United States.

Kat Vellos [: 00:04:33

And so I had written about 10,000 words before I realized I was gonna write a book, so that's a really great way to write a book because you never stare at an empty page. And so, yeah, that's the story.

Marli Williams [: 00:04:43

I love that so much. I think, you know, when we notice a problem that we're having and the people around us, it's like, I think as entrepreneurs, we're problem solvers. Yes. Like, oh, this is an issue, and it's not just an issue for me. It's an issue for the people that I know. And kind of looking at it, you know, from that perspective of the research around the idea of, again, like, this loneliness epidemic and, like, diving in and be like, let's this is a problem that I'm curious about solving.

Kat Vellos [: 00:05:13

Absolutely. And I think that people who, as you mentioned, go through the world with that entrepreneurial spirit or that idea of, like, I don't have to ask permission to try to make things better. Do it. Go for it. Do it. Apply the skills you have. Apply the knowledge you have. Apply the talent you have and see how you can make an impact.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:29

As you were researching that book and doing those interviews, I'm curious, was there anything that surprised you the most around, like, what you've found out, what you discovered? It sounds like, obviously, it's like it was validating. Like, again, I'm not the only one. And I love this question of like, woah. Why is it so hard to make friends as adults? Right? And I've heard that time and time again. And I actually created an adult summer camp for women, and it was a lot in because I've heard from a lot of people how hard it is to make friends as adults. And, like, I think about summer camp and this creating this space of intimacy and deep connection and putting your phones away and sitting around a fire and telling stories and having spaces and places that really foster that connection because I feel like, you know, that experience was like giving water to thirsty people in the desert. They're like, I I didn't know how much I needed this to be seen, to be witnessed, to be supported, and to have this, like, really beautiful, like, shared experience. So, you know, this question of, like, why do you why is it so hard to make friends? And was there anything that surprised you about the what you discovered, what you found out through your research?

Kat Vellos [: 00:06:47

Yeah. Definitely. So, as far as the reasons why it's hard for adults to make friends, I explain this all in greater detail in the book. I also have, like, the summary on the back so you can know if this is for you or not, listeners out there. So the four main challenges that it came up in the research around why adults were having difficulty making and keeping their friends, the first is what I call hypermobility in the book. This is the tendency we have to move through life and through the world at a much quicker pace than folks used to. One of the biggest reasons adults say that they lose their friends is because either them or their friends moved away. We move in and out of cities at a much higher pace.

Kat Vellos [: 00:07:21

And, particularly, now post pandemic, not everybody has the same commute as they did pre pandemic. Like I said, I started this research in 2015, book came out in January 2020, but commute has often been a reason why people don't have time. They're like, I spend twenty hours a week commuting. How do I have time for friends? That used to be me as well. And the second big, challenge is busyness. You know, that really overlaps there is people feeling like they wanna have time for friends, but they are too busy doing a million other things or prioritizing other things. The third challenge is honestly, like, relationships and family. Not to say that those are bad things, but typically when people get into their real serious relationship in adulthood or become parents, like, that leftover time just evaporates.

Kat Vellos [: 00:08:06

Research by Robin Dunbar found that when people get into a serious romantic relationship, it typically leads to the attrition of two friends. It doesn't mean that they broke up with those friends or had a big falling out. It just means that the time that they have now committed to a primary partner is just time that they just is lost from the friend bucket. And then the fourth challenge is difficulty establishing intimacy. So there were so many adults that I interviewed, surveyed who said, I have tons of acquaintances. I have tons of followers online. I know a lot of people at, like, a shallow level, but I have no idea how to make a best friend, how to turn any of these people into a best friend. And so those are the four big challenges, and I and in the book, I give a different section for each of those, and it's all about solutions.

Kat Vellos [: 00:08:48

It's not just like, oh, woe is me. Like, here's all these problem. It's like, no. I'm about action. Let's understand the problem fully, And then what are some actions we can take to actually turn that around? You can hear my, like, coaching side coming out loud.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:00

I love I love it. I'm like I'm like, action's where the magic happens, but I think it's so validating to hear, like, oh, you know, when I think about those four things, like, that totally tracks. And you like, specifically, I really resonate with the last one of, like, I can walk into a room or any event in Portland, you know, and just, like, run into people.

Kat Vellos [: 00:09:19

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:19

But I got to a certain point in my life where I was like, but who are the people that are gonna be there for me when things are hard or shit hits the fan? Or I've called it, like, who are my airport friends?

Kat Vellos [: 00:09:30

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:31

Who are who will pick me up and take me from to and from the airport? And I actually made I made a magic list of, like, what I wanted in a friendship. Nice. To really, like I was like, okay. This is a a problem. You know? And, again, I know a lot of people but I don't feel known by many people. And I think it's this, yeah, like, this desire for intimacy and connection. And when I look back on, you know, even, you know, what my family, it was just everything was a little, like, on the surface. And that's kinda where I stayed, and that's why I didn't have the depth of, like you said, intimacy and connection with people. And, you know, how do we how do we build that? How do we nurture that? How do we create that? And it reminds me of, Sherry Turkle's work, and she wrote a book, I think, called Alone Together.

Kat Vellos [: 00:10:20

Yes. It's a wonderful book. I love her.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:23

Yeah. She's phenomenal. And, you know, I remember in her TED talk, she had mentioned, like, asking a 17 year old boy, like, you know, do you ever wanna learn? He said, someday, but certainly not anytime soon. I'd love to learn how to have a real conversation.

Kat Vellos [: 00:10:36

My heart.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:38

Because it's like, how do we you know, it's like the lost art of a conversation of asking interesting questions and to, you know, slowing down enough, right, in this, like, very busy, distracted world where we're having just these, like, running into somebody at a networking event or at this thing, but not actually sitting down for a cup of coffee or taking a walk with a friend in your neighborhood. My two friends that I created out of that magical list live an eight minute walk away. We all have dogs, and it's like, hey. What are you doing right now? Like, this we talk about, like, the value of that spontaneous friend moment or hangout of, I made too much soup. Come over. Like, do you know? Instead of, like, what are you doing two and a half months from now? Exactly. Right? And how valuable that is to have people in your physical space. Like, you talk about this idea of hyperlocal community.

Kat Vellos [: 00:11:34

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:34

And so love to hear more of your thoughts about you talk about hyperlocal, hyperspecific, and, you know, how to help people. Yeah. Like, the tangible, actionable tools. K. Here's the issues. Here's the challenges. What can we do about it? How can we help the folks out there who are listening cultivate connection and deeper friendships?

Kat Vellos [: 00:11:57

Absolutely. Thanks for sharing your personal stories about that. And I'm sure there's listeners out there who wish that they had some friends they could go spontaneously walk their dogs with and share sleep with and reach on foot in less than ten minutes. So, I love that story, and you'll hear more about why in a second here. So as I mentioned, the book came out January 2020. And over the last five years, I've really been refining this thesis in a way as I've worked more, coached more, facilitated more workshops, run more group programs. I've learned more and more and more, like, really refining this question around how do we help people have better, closer, stronger friendships and community. And one of the things that I've come to is realizing that, yes, we can do all the things in the world, but if we actually focus on maybe just one or two things, you might be more successful.

Kat Vellos [: 00:12:43

And so one of the things that is really important that has made my life better just like you described in yours is having friends I can walk to. Having friends I don't have to get in a car and drive for an hour and fight traffic and look for parking and all of that. And we know that, so in the book, I talk about the seeds of connection, which are the four elements that are most likely to make a friendship thrive. Their proximity, frequency, commitment, and compatibility. And the more of those you have, the more likely it is that your friendship will thrive. You can get by on just three of them depending on which three. You can get by on less than a % of each of them, but the more you have, the better you're gonna do. And if you're in close proximity to somebody, it's gonna be a lot easier to suddenly see them more frequently.

Kat Vellos [: 00:13:25

Right? So if you have a best friend who's two doors down, like I used to when I lived in Seattle, it's like one of the best times of my life is, like, we could see each other five times a week and it not feel weird to be like, oh, do you wanna hang out again tomorrow? Because you're right there next door. And so hyper locality is an element of this that has become really, like, one of the torches I'm carrying right now. And the other is hyper specificity because I get a lot of folks who come to me for support, guidance, coaching, workshops, whatnot. And they're like, you know, I've been putting myself out there. I'm going to all these meetups. I'm not meeting anybody I click with. You know, people are nice enough, but I don't really know if I vibe with them. And it's like, okay.

Kat Vellos [: 00:14:04

Well, a lot of the meetups out there are kind of like broad in general. And similar to what you said, Marli, where you said you made a list really specifically of who you your ideal friends were. Like, what kind of person you really wanted to have in your life. Because the answer to that question today might be different than who it was when you were 15, these, like, long term friends. And you might love them, but you might be not as compatible at this stage of life. Or it could be that the people you have around, like, you've met, but you're not really vibing all the way together. You're not the compatibility is not on point. And so getting specific about what you really wanna add to your life through these friendships and what you hope to give to these friends too, because it's not just about what you take, it's about what you give.

Kat Vellos [: 00:14:44

So getting specific about who you really wanna meet because it will be more fulfilling to have a local friend one local friend who is really specifically perfectly matched for you than to have 10, across town friends who really don't feel like a fit. And so that's why the second torch I'm carrying right now is hyper specificity, which is to say, how can we get really specific and really local to find the people that you're looking for? And that's the foundation of platonic action lab, which is my signature course. It's a twelve week program, and I walk you through the process of really refining the answer to those questions and then finding those people in your neighborhood, your community, whether you know, my work is for people who live in cities, not like rural areas, but folks who are in a city and there's a high enough density, I absolutely believe you can find your people in, like, less than two miles.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:36

I was reading through what you're up to, and I I love, again, coming back to action. Right? And you had a statistic that I thought was really interesting where it said it takes the average adult two years to build friendships and connections when they you know, moving to a new place. And I'm gonna teach you how to do it in less than three months. Kind of that was, like, a little bit of that that premise. And when you I think it's so important to remember when we get clear on what it is that we want, it's a lot easier to make it happen. And I think it's like again, as when we grew up and we went to school and even in college, like, it was like it felt like, oh, all of these people there it was hyperlocal and hyper specific.

Kat Vellos [: 00:16:17

Yes. It was.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:17

You know, you think about, like, a residence hall or being on a college campus. Right? And then you're, like, thrown out into the world. Like, you move to a city. You don't know anybody. And it's really it's a skill. Like, almost to see it as a skill. That it's a skill we never really learned officially. Like, we didn't there was no class on, like, how to build connection and how to make a friend.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:39

Right? We just learned how to do it, but we had access to these communities that were already, like, built in communities.

Kat Vellos [: 00:16:47

Mhmm.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:48

And so it's like, how do we build community on purpose and take action and take initiative to say, like, if this is what I want in my life. Then I have to create it or to go out and find it. But it's not going to happen unless I make you know, it's like to put in that level of intentionality with something and really seeing it as, again, both a skill and not a nice to have. It's a it's essential to have connection and community. And I don't know if you, there's a Netflix series called, The Blue Zones, or it's about the Blue Zones.

Kat Vellos [: 00:17:27

I read the book. Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:28

Yeah. And they well, they did a whole series on, like, you know, researching centenarians. Right? Like, people that lived over to being over a hundred years old.

Kat Vellos [: 00:17:38

Mhmm.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:39

And one of the top elements of that was this concept that they called social integration of, like, I feel like I'm a part of this community. Like, I feel like my presence matters. And it meant, like, knowing the name of the barista at the coffee shop you go to every day. Right? Of like or knowing the name of, like, the male person. Like, it's like, do I know the neighbors? Like, do I literally know their names? Like and maybe they're not gonna be the people that you, like, hang out with on a Saturday. But, like so it's like there's all these, like, layers and levels of connection. And appreciate what you said around quality over quantity.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:21

When it comes to those deeper nourishing connections, it's, like, better to have, you know, one or two really close friends who live nearby than, like, 10 to 20 who maybe you see once a month or every other you know? Mhmm. And how we can help people build that. So where do you begin that journey with people? They're like, maybe I moved to a new city, or I've been here, you know, man, I've been here five or ten years, and I still don't feel like I have found my people. Where do I where do I begin? Where do you begin with people on that journey?

Kat Vellos [: 00:18:56

Yes. And I've and I've had folks go through Powell in both of those scenarios. So, like, just moved to a new city or getting ready to move, and it's like, I wanna feel more connected in my new town than I did in my old town. It's like, great. Let's work on that. And as you said, I've had people who are like, I've lived here for years, and I still don't feel like I know anyone. I still don't feel like I belong to this city. And so in both of those scenarios, you can still do the program.

Kat Vellos [: 00:19:18

And so the actions are the same whether you're new in town or whether you just want your town to feel new to you. K? And you said something earlier that reminded me of a very interesting study. This was published in the journal of social and personal relationships, and it was this question about whether friendships happen organically or through luck versus effort. And the researchers looked at this question of how people's beliefs about that question affected their loneliness in life. And so if people believe that friendships are supposed to happen organically or if you get lucky, they tended to be lonelier than people who believe that friendships happen by effort. Because the people who believe it takes effort put in effort. They go to more social gatherings. They introduce themselves to more people when they're there.

Kat Vellos [: 00:20:05

And surprise, they get more friends. And so if the mindset is what needs to be worked on first, then let's focus on that, which is believing that effort is actually the thing that results in the outcome you want, not it being, you know, cosmically aligned in the stars. Sure. Sometimes that happens. You meet someone and you become besties, but relying on that as a plan, not a plan.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:26

Right. Because you could meet an amazing friend at a party, but then not follow-up with them, not reach out, not get their, oh, this is awkward. Like, do I ask for their number? Like, how does this how do I, like, make a friend without, like, hitting on somebody or whatever? You know? Like, and be like, hey. Do you wanna hang out? And for people that haven't done that, kind of, like, made that intentional effort, I was it's like at first, it can feel a little awkward. Like, that muscle is atrophied. Maybe we haven't used it in a while. And so it's like, it might feel a little fun comfortable. Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:59

Uncomfortable. Yeah. Fun for some, maybe uncomfortable, a little bit of both.

Kat Vellos [: 00:21:05

Yes. And it is. And if you practice it more, the more natural it gets. The more you say the thing, hey. Can I get your number? I'd love to hang out with you again. The fifth time is gonna feel more comfortable than the first time. But if you never do it the first time, you're never gonna get anybody's number. It's gonna be harder.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:18

I really appreciate that that mindset shift because I do think a lot of people make the assumption that it should or it's supposed to be natural and organic. And if it hasn't happened that way, then, like, there's something wrong with me. Or, like, maybe people don't wanna be my friend. Like, it's like, what are the stories that we tell ourselves? Like, what what do we what do we made that mean about ourselves versus, like, oh, if this is something that I want, it just is gonna require a little bit more effort and energy. It's kinda like if we want a job, we typically have to, like, apply for the job and, like, you know, it's versus, like, I hope that one day, someday, someone's just going to offer me a job, and it's gonna be magical. Right? I haven't applied for a job in a long time, but, you know, I'm pretty sure you still have to, like, apply.

Kat Vellos [: 00:22:05

Yes. And the thing is, like, when we put forth that effort, it takes back some of the feeling of it being a mystery. The funny thing is so many times adults will say, you know, the best time in my life for friendship was like when I was in college or when I was at camp. You know? As you mentioned, the camp example. But especially people reflect on college being like, you know, it was just so easy to see my friends, and we all had so much in common. And it's like, well, pause for a second and zoom out and look at the conditions of that. Right? You were in a space with people that you were the exact same phase of life. You probably were paired with people who had a lot of the same interests as you if you're in the same major making friends.

Kat Vellos [: 00:22:39

Right? Same program or department. You live together in close proximity, and you did all of your classes together, and you hung out at night, and you went to the grocery store together, and you hung out and partied on the weekend. So, like, all of those conditions, the frequency, the proximity, the compatibility was kind of set up for you. You just showed up. So it doesn't mean that you were more charismatic then. It's that the conditions of your life were set up to give you that. The conditions of life as a working adult and everybody's kind of at a maybe different phases of life, different responsibilities, way more than in college. The conditions are not always set up for that.

Kat Vellos [: 00:23:15

And so there are things that we can do to put those conditions back in place. Some of those are certainly skill building that we have, as you mentioned, around, like, how do you get someone's number? How do you introduce yourself to a neighbor? How do you introduce people to a supper club you wanna have? All of that I cover in PAL, the shorthand for Potonic Action Lab, the program.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:32

I love that that's the acronym too.

Kat Vellos [: 00:23:34

Girl, actually, do it. I could I love that. Do it. I was like, of course, I'm gonna.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:39

Of course. Pow. I love a good acronym.

Kat Vellos [: 00:23:42

So yeah. So all of those things are things that we practice, and it's really not a mystery. It's putting the conditions back in our life to build the things that we want in a setting that isn't always there for it, which is modern cities and and life.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:55

Yeah. So it's like in those scenarios, like, yeah, the conditions made that easier. And so it's like, how do we create those conditions based on where we're at right now? So with that mindset shift, okay, if I wanna build friendship and community, it's gonna require some effort on my part. Mindset shift, I think that was kinda like step one where we begin. Where do we go from there?

Kat Vellos [: 00:24:19

Exactly. So mindset shift really, like, starting out kind of auditing and assessing where you're at right now. Like, what's working, what's not working? What do you wish for? What would it look like if I saw a Polaroid picture of it? And then taking steps on a week by week basis to make to move the needle on whatever that goal is and understanding that not everything is going to be a home run right away. You know, I was watching the warriors game the other night, and, you know, these are, like, some of the best basketball players out there. Right? And at the top of their game, they still don't make every single shot. You know, the ball doesn't always go through, and they're still excellent at it. Right? And so we have to reduce our expectations on ourself. Sometimes folks come in and they say, you know, I tried reaching out to this person.

Kat Vellos [: 00:25:04

It didn't work, so I just I just didn't wanna do it again. It's like, well, that's not gonna get you very far. Like, it's not always gonna be a home run right away. It's not gonna be an overnight success, but it's with dedication and showing up and trying again. And every time it doesn't work, there's probably a lesson we can take away from that. It's like, well, why did it maybe not work? Was it just the wrong timing for that person? Could I have phrased this invitation a little differently? Could I have made it easier for them to say yes by allowing them to bring their kid or another friend with them? There's things you can tweak every single time to then make yes easier the next time.

Marli Williams [: 00:25:38

Yeah. I think it's like, how can we really use that as such, like, a learning opportunity, right, when when it can feel so vulnerable to you know, it it is putting ourselves out there, and it's it's like that level of exposure. I always say visibility is vulnerability. And, like, when we kinda, like, open open up that heart, and I think that that's probably why a lot of people don't because they're like, I would rather not even deal with, like, the quote, unquote, like, the story of rejection or hearing a no, so I'm not even going to, you know, like, people say, like, to put myself out there in kind of, like, a vulnerable situation and then kind of but seeing it again as an opportunity to practice a new skill and to see building friendships and deepening those as a muscle that we can build and and things that we can learn along the way. And something that you said, I think, is just so important is to get clear on what it is that you want. Right? Like, I we're both in, like, the coaching space. It's like that's like one of the first questions I ask people sometimes. Like, what do you want? Wave of magic wand.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:46

What would your friendships look like? What would it sound like? How would you feel? What would you do with them? Where would you go? What you know, when you think about, like, the type of friendships that you wanna have, like, let's get really clear. And I think what happens for people too is, yeah, we've carried maybe certain friendships into our life that aren't maybe aligned anymore or aren't a good fit and for where we are at this stage in our life. Maybe, like, those friends that we had in college, like, were awesome in college. And maybe we're just at different places in our journey, and we're looking for different things, and we want different things. And it doesn't mean that we have to, like, totally never see them again, but it's just, like, how often do we see them? You know, because one of the things when I come came up with my list, it was like, how do I wanna feel around these people? So it's not just as it's what we do, but it's like, I wanna feel supported. I want I want friends who inspire me, who are growth oriented, where, like, we can sit down and, like, watch, like, personal development videos on a Saturday. Like, I'm here for it. It's like we're all entrepreneurs, so we can we're kinda like a phone a friend.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:55

Like, oh my god. I got this email, and I don't know what to do. Right? It's just like having people that I I feel really supported by and challenged in some ways of, like, challenge to grow, challenge to be better, and, like, people who see who I am and also support my success. You know, I heard a quote one time that says, if you wanna know who who your true friends are, tell them your biggest wins. Because sometimes, it can be really vulnerable to share, wow, I got this client or I you know, this thing happened that I'm super excited about or I'm going on this trip. Right? And people kinda wanna like there are people that will cut you down. Like, oh, like, you're going on another trip? Oh my god. You know? Or not really like, I wanna feel celebrated

Kat Vellos [: 00:28:44

Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:44

In my success as an entrepreneur and having people in my circle because it's easy to find people to complain with.

Kat Vellos [: 00:28:50

It's harder to find people to celebrate with. Yeah. You don't have to feel shy sharing your celebration.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:56

Yeah. Like, oh, like, I'm bragging or you know, it's like, no. I want I want us all to share in our celebrations and wins and things like that. So I think that that first step of really clarifying, like, what do you want? And then the like you said, taking action steps to make that happen. And when you're at a party, to be willing to put yourself out there. So what are your how do you help people, like, navigate that space? Like, they're at an event, they're at a party, they found someone that they're, like, they're they're grooving with, they're vibing with, and they, like, wanna hang out with them again. What are some hot tips you have for people out there to, like, start that conversation that will hopefully, you know, yeah, lead to the next step of friendship. So they don't leave the party.

Marli Williams [: 00:29:38

They're like, oh, man. I thought they were so cool, and I didn't say anything because I wanna be cool too.

Kat Vellos [: 00:29:44

Yeah. So you're gonna put on your imaginary courage pants. Like, in your mind, put on your imaginary courage pants, and and you're gonna, like, stay on there in your confidence and your shine and knowing that everything you have to offer as a friend, and you're going to extend an invitation. That sounds really big, but it's not that big. But it's simply the invitation to connect again. And you can frame it in any way that feels natural to you. Like, I I offer a lot of templates in the program of, like, here's language you can use. Like, you can say this. You can say that.

Kat Vellos [: 00:30:14

You can say the other. Because a lot of people are like, I don't know what to say. And I'm like, I love words. I'm a words person. Here's a whole bunch of options. You can rip on them. You can turn it into your own slang, but here's what you're trying to convey. Right? So one example of this is, as we talked about earlier, is, like, if we just met at a party, And I'm like, Marli, it was so great talking to you.

Kat Vellos [: 00:30:32

I really love what you said about x y z. I would love to hang out again sometime if you're open to it. Is that cool? Could we trade contact info?

Marli Williams [: 00:30:40

I thought you'd never ask. Yes. I'm so excited. Let's hang out. I have this, like, really cool coffee shop down the street.

Kat Vellos [: 00:30:47

Excellent. So next time we hang out, I wanna check out that coffee shop you love, and I'm gonna bring that book I was telling you about so I can show it to you. And I would love to pick up the conversation about x y z. So what I've done there is I've affirmed the thing that made me want to speak to you again, which is, like, this lovely conversation we'd had at the party. I'm picking up the thread, which is to say, I'm gonna bring this thing, or I'm gonna share that thing, or I'm gonna follow-up and send you a link to that thing that we may have discussed in our chat. And I love that you said I wanna show you the coffee shop that I love. Right? Because that's really great. We're gonna go into a third space, which is something else I talk about in the program, just third space belonging.

Kat Vellos [: 00:31:19

A lot of people want a third place outside of work and home and don't have one. So so I love that you wanted to share your third place with me. Those are just, like, a few elements of ways to extend an invitation that doesn't just seem like out of the blue. Like, my intention is disclosed to you by saying, I love our conversation about this thing. I would love to pick it back up. You're learning that I appreciate you, and I'm willing to share my appreciation verbally because I've acknowledged you. I've told you thank you for the thing. I've acknowledged that I wanna pick that back up.

Kat Vellos [: 00:31:45

Again, laying the thread that we can pick up the next time. So you're not gonna show up to the coffee shop wondering, I wonder what we're gonna talk about. I wonder like, I don't know what to say to Kat. You know? It's like, you have some clues of things I would love to talk about and where to begin, and we can take it from there.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:59

It's so valuable to have, like, those practical, tangible, like, what do I say in those moments? And I appreciated of, you know, why do I wanna hang out again and, like and naming that. And I think, you know, in a conversation where you're super vibing with somebody, usually, you're talking about, like, oh, have you heard this podcast? And then I'd love to send you the link to it, and you can listen to it, you know, and then we can, like, talk about it when we meet for coffee. Right? So this, like, how am I intentionally, like, yeah, continuing that conversation and that that mutuality of kinda, like, that giving and taking and, like, that that reciprocal energy. And I think that that's part of it too is, like, feeling, you know, I think or feeling the vibe, feeling the energy. And we're not going to, like, necessarily it's not about, like, going into a party and being like, I have to follow-up with every single person in this room. No. Like, you don't have to. Before, when I would go to networking events, I felt like I had that or put that pressure on myself to, like, talk to everybody.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:02

And now my intention is one, new, meaningful connection. And following my intuition and, like, really, like, kind of getting the lay of the land, and I I always say, like, notice what you notice and paying pay attention to who or what captures your attention. And it can just be like somebody's shoes or someone's, like, really cool, like, vest or something like that, right, where it's just like maybe it's something about their style or something about their energy. And knowing that and you might go and be like, these aren't my people, and that's okay too. Right? Because it's all it's all data. It's all information. Right? And I think that that's, like, that's so valuable. The and the follow through.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:49

I always say friends are in the follow through.

Kat Vellos [: 00:33:52

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:52

It's how many to follow-up. Again, this is, like, the literally the title of your book. How often do we hear, you know, Kat, we should get together sometime. That's not the line. Right? Because it then it's like, how many times have we heard that? Nobody's gonna follow-up. It's never gonna happen. But don't say it. Right? And sometimes, you know, I'm a big fan of, like, great.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:15

When are you free? Let's put a date on the calendar. How's next Saturday at ten?

Kat Vellos [: 00:34:23

Workout your calendar and lock it down. Lock it down.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:24

Lock it down. Exactly.

Kat Vellos [: 00:34:26

Lock it down. Do that in the moment if you're both, like, you know, on the effervescence of the moment and you're like, let's do it right now. I can you can feel the excitement is mutual. You can do it in that follow-up where it's, again, like, I'd love talking to you. Would love to get together again. Here's a few times I'm available in the next week or two. You know? And making yes easy. The follow through is where so many potential friendships go to die.

Kat Vellos [: 00:34:46

It's like everyone's too shy to follow-up because they're like, well, I don't wanna seem too thirsty. You know, I don't want them to think I'm, like, stalking them. It's like, no. If you don't follow-up, nothing will happen if both people are on the both sides being like, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna do it. It's like, well, Like, there it goes. Research by, doctor Jeffrey Hall at University of Kansas also says that, like, to make a new best friend, it takes ninety to two hundred hours, and that needs to happen within the first six weeks of knowing each other. You know, if you've been at camp, you know that can happen.

Kat Vellos [: 00:35:16

People make best friends at camp within, like, three, four days. And but most of us aren't spending all day and night together again. And so if you don't have that kind of time, you need to make up for it with, you know, the intentionality, the vulnerability, the deep conversation, the expression of, like, I really would love to keep building this friendship. I think you're really wonderful. You know, those things help lay the groundwork when you can't just, like, wake up and eat your oatmeal together every morning at camp. Totally.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:41

Yeah. And I think, again, acknowledging that it takes time. It takes time to build that intimacy, but I think the more intentional we are with it you know, because we could, like, hang out with someone and grab a cup of coffee once a week for an entire year and have very surface level conversations and not feel really connected. And so, intimacy when they are building, like, a new friendship? Or even so it's like it's there I think there's two sides. It's like building a new friendship with someone I just met. And then sometimes, like, I've sat down and think about, like, who do I already know Yes. Who I wanna cultivate a deeper connection with. You know, maybe there there's people that I always see in a group setting, but I've never actually hung out with them one on one.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:28

So what are some, like, intimate, like, tips that you have around building, like, a deeper level of connection whether with a new person or someone that you already know?

Kat Vellos [: 00:36:39

Yeah. So I had a a woman who went through Powell last year, and she in a similar way, I had her do one of the audits that I have folks do where they make a list of the people they know that they would consider, like, close friends, medium friends, acquaintances. Right? People you kinda know, but you don't really know them that well. And like you said, you maybe never hung out one on one. And then of that list, she realized that there were many people that she knew. She it wasn't true that she didn't know anybody, didn't have any friends. She actually did have a number of people there. And then had her do another thing, which is and not everybody has to do this.

Kat Vellos [: 00:37:12

You can pick the things that feel like a fit for you, but she followed up with them to ask them how how their friend life was going and, like, how they considered, like, their friend circles looking. Like, were there things that they wanted? How would they define friendship? That sort of thing. Just open up a conversation about friendship, and it's easy to do that. Just say to someone, I've been thinking a lot about friendship, reading all this content, listening to books about friendship and podcast. I'd love to talk about friendship with you. What's friendship like for you lately? Right? And I can tell you from experience, people will open up. They really wanna just check about it when you offer the chance. And so she'd had this kind of conversation with the people she knew, and she realized that some of the people that she had mentally logged as acquaintances thought of her as a friend.

Kat Vellos [: 00:37:54

And so simply by having that conversation, she realized that she actually had more friends than she thought she did. And then she focused more of her energy on deepening those relationships rather than thinking, oh, I have to go out and meet a whole bunch of new people because I want close friends. It's like, maybe you just need to get closer to the people you already know. And so she took a lot of different actions to, like, spend more time together, share more of life together, have more conversations about meaningful things, but not just this, you know, surface shallow stuff. And she was, like, thrilled that within a number of weeks, she was like, oh my gosh. I have so many more friends, and I feel so much more confident reaching out to them, inviting them, hanging out with them because I have a sense that they are gonna say yes because they want that too. And so it was this really big shift for her. And it and, again, this program, it's, like, three months long, and that happened for her, like, halfway through.

Kat Vellos [: 00:38:41

So it doesn't have to take a lot of time, but it does take intention and courage and action.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:46

I love that so much. And just the power of an invitation. Right? And when you think about it, it's like, who doesn't wanna be invited? Even if you can't go, being invited feels really good. You know? And so it's like how like, when we extend that invitation, like, hey. There's this really cool concert on Friday night or the stand up comedy show. I was just wondering if you wanted to go. I have an extra ticket or or whatever it is, or here's the link. Like, check it out.

Marli Williams [: 00:39:14

Let me know if you're free or available. Even if you can't go, it feels so good to be invited. So it's like be the person to make someone else make someone else's day by inviting them to do something with you. And that was like a big shift for me when I thought about I love this idea of, like, almost like a friendship audit. You know, like and when I think about, oh, these are I I really enjoy going to yoga every week with these people, but I have never really had a one on one conversation with any of them. And, you know, there was a a handful of folks who were like, oh, after yoga, we're gonna go on a hike. And it was just like two or three people. And how nice it is to kind of build deeper connections in that smaller group setting with, like, one or two or three other people.

Marli Williams [: 00:39:59

And that, again, the, like, the level of intentionality. And even it's like sometimes they've invited me. I'm like, you know, I can't make it or I have a meeting, but, like, thank you so much. It always feels it always feels so good. Keep inviting me. Right? And some and just because someone can't go one time doesn't mean like they're never gonna wanna hang out with you again.

Kat Vellos [: 00:40:19

One piece of advice I give people around invitations, if you if you receive an invitation that you can't say yes to, but you really like that person, would like to spend time with them again, and you want to give them a a boost to not get deflated by your no, instead of just saying, no, I can't make it, or no, I can't make it. Thanks for inviting me. Or no, I can't make it. Please keep inviting me. You can counter offer and be like, no. I can't make it, but could we do this other thing instead within a few days? Because I still really wanna see you. I just can't make it at that time. Yeah.

Kat Vellos [: 00:40:50

Yeah. Because if you make another encounter offer. Extend that invitation back. Exactly. Like, your counter invitations. Like, I can't come to that thing, but can we do this instead? And what that does is, again, it's it turns the no into, like, a a different yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:07

It's just a different yes.

Kat Vellos [: 00:41:08

We do a different yes instead.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:10

I think that that's so valuable. And I really do I love I love the work that you're doing so much because it's breaking down, like, this this illusion that this is something that we should already know how to do into, like, oh, like, there are actual, like, skills that we can cultivate around really building these friendships. And, again, like, when we do it with more purpose and more intention, it can happen really fast. My partner, Liz, is like she is one of the most amazing, like, connectors, community builders. She has really beautiful friendships, and I've learned so much from her. And the amount of thank you cards this woman sends blows me away. Someone will invite us to a dinner party. She will write a handwritten thing like, thank you so much for the beautiful evening.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:02

We loved connecting with you. And this woman, she doesn't write, like, thanks for dinner. Love you, Liz. Like, it's like, it's a novel. Like, there's a journey. Like, it's but how many people, like, they remember Yes. That? Or she'll do things, like, when we're having a conversation, oh, you know, like, that book that we talked about, Alone Together or whatever. She'll just, like, literally ask for their address, go on wherever, you know, and send it to them.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:29

And, like, it doesn't have to be monetary, but, like, sending the follow-up, the book, the podcast, a thank you note. I just think it's so sweet, you know, to be able to really I think at the end of the day, we all just wanna be heard and seen and valued. And so how can we show up that way? You know, how can we be the friend we wish that we had?

Kat Vellos [: 00:42:53

Be the friend you wish you had. Exactly. It's like offer the generosity, offer the kindness, offer the thoughtfulness, offer the humor, offer the follow through that you wish you were getting from people. And that creates a field where they can then offer the same back to you, and it turns into this beautiful, generous field of sharing back and forth, building that closer connection, and then also enjoying the yumminess of life together.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:14

That's so good. Well, thank you so much for joining us here today. I have one final question for you, which is what what final thoughts would you love to leave people with as they go out into the world to forage new friendships, to build and nurture the friendships that they already have? What advice as we set them out into the world would you love to leave them with? And then where can people find you, learn more about you and your work, and even join the platonic action lab? Indeed. Thank you.

Kat Vellos [: 00:43:47

So I would definitely say for any listeners out there who vibe on this conversation and you really wanna get intentional about your friendships, I encourage you to do little audits of what your friend life looks like. So do it on the four seeds of connection. Even if you don't read the book, we should get together, although definitely read the book. Definitely check it out. Grab a piece of paper and write it down. Do your proximity audit. Like, who's nearby? How do you reach them? Do your frequency. You know? How who are you seeing every week, month, you know, day, twice a year? You know? Do that kind of thing.

Kat Vellos [: 00:44:16

See who you wanna see more frequently. What's your compatibility like with the people in your life and in your network? You know? Do you need friends who are a closer fit for where you are right now? Maybe there's people from the past you wanna get closer to. And then do that commitment audit. Really understand, like, what specific actions are you taking to make your commitment evident to your friend, and who do you wish maybe would show a little bit more commitment to you, and how can you, work on that together and spend more time together and really build that up. If you want my support with any part of this, there's two main ways to do that. So as we talked about, platonic action lab is the course to help you create that hyperlocal, hyper specific friendship community. And so you can sign up for that at my website. Just go to weshouldgettogether.com, platonic action lab, and then sign up.

Kat Vellos [: 00:45:01

You can get started every week for twelve weeks. I'll send you a lesson on Saturday, and you will follow that lesson, and there you will assign yourself a homework. I don't tell you what the homework is because it's based on your personalized goals. So you will pick a challenge for yourself that week. And then by the end of twelve weeks, you could have a very different story to tell about what community looks like for you locally. If you want my help one on one, you can also go to my website, weshouldgettogether.com/coaching. Let me know, you know, if you wanna do one on one, session together, and we can make a plan for connection working together. Whether you wanna focus on connection in the next couple months or the next couple seasons or for the rest of the year, we can make a plan together on what to do there.

Marli Williams [: 00:45:39

What beautiful offerings that you have to share with the world and really combating this loneliness epidemic and, again, making some of these skills really tangible for people to go out there. And I encourage all of you out there, as you all know, what I love to say is information does not change our lives. It's the implementation and application of that information that will transform your life. So I hope that, you know, you got some amazing golden nuggets from our conversation today. You have some very clear action steps from Kat and some ways to follow-up and follow through with building those friendships out there in the world. So thank you so much, Kat, for sharing your magic with us today and for doing the work that you do in the world.

Kat Vellos [: 00:46:27

Thank you so much, Marli, for being a bright light in this world, doing the work you're doing and lifting people up.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:32

Thank you so much, my friend. Alright. Until next time, everybody. Take care. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.