How to Embrace and Elevate Your Introvert Superpower -58

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:04

Well, hey there. What is happening? I am super stoked to welcome you back to the Marli Williams podcast. For this week, we are doing a deep dive into what it means to be an introvert in an extroverted world and really helping introverts and helping those who lead introverts reclaim their power and reclaim their energy so that they can show up fully resourced and ready to go. Introverts have so much to offer this world, and we are going to debunk some myths about what it means to be an introvert and really help you tap into the power that they bring to the table. So I cannot wait to dive into this powerful conversation with Emma-Louise Parkes, who is the CEO of the Ambitious Introvert with you today. It is going to be a powerful conversation, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast, where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:35

Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in. Well, this week, you're in for a treat, my friends. I am hanging out with Emma Louise Parks, who is the CEO of the Ambitious Introvert. We are going to do a deep dive on what introversion is, what it's not, how you can harness your introversion, and for leaders out there who are leading introverts, how they can support their members of their team in a more powerful and impactful way. So, Emma- Louise, thank you for joining us on the podcast today.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:17

Stoked to have you here.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:02:18

Oh, it's so great to see you again, Marli. Thank you so much for inviting me, and I'm excited to have this important conversation with you.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:24

It is an important conversation, you know. As someone who is a self proclaimed extrovert, and, you know, the Myers Briggs told me that I'm an extrovert too.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:02:32

But, like So you got that confirmation?

Marli Williams [: 00:02:34

I have the confirmation from all of the personality tests in all of the land. And, you know, I think that really understanding introversion is so important for me as a leader to understand people in my audience. And for people that are introverts out there, how can they really, like, yeah, like, harness this as their superpower instead of their weakness? Because it seems like, yeah, we live in this culture, in this world that really values extroversion. I'm really excited to have this conversation, but I would love to hear a little bit about you and your background, your story, and what has brought you to this work of really helping ambitious introverts kinda, like, live their like, live it as their superpower instead of their weakness.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:03:17

I came to this work in a very snaky, path fashion. I, you know, if I look back to connect the dots, it seems crazy that that I'm here, but here I am. I didn't know what introversion was until I was probably 35, 30 six. I actually listened to a podcast and someone explained it. I went, oh, that's me. That makes it. It was like everything made sense for me. The reason that I'm so passionate and I have the approach that I do to introversion is I'm not someone that's shy.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:03:50

I'm not socially awkward. I don't care about public speaking. I love people. All of these things that we conflate with introversion. However, it is essential for me to spend a ridiculous amount of time alone to fully recharge my battery. And I deeply, deeply process information to come to a decision or to come to a theory about something. I'm not a quick brainstorming person. I like depth.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:04:18

And those are the two markers of introversion. Those are the original from Carl Jung, depth of processing, and how we recharge our energy. And so when I look back when I was 18, when I left school, I went to work as a flight attendant. And I did international routes. There would be sometimes 350 passengers, this aircraft for, you know, like nine and a half hours. You're closed in and on YouTube. And I loved it. I loved the people.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:04:45

I loved the travel. I loved the crew that I worked with. I I was living the dream. But I was also completely exhausted from a people hangover for a day or two after a long flight, not just the jet lag. And when I learned about integration, that's when I realized, like, that didn't ever stop me from doing that job. But, you know, I would get down route. Maybe somewhere like Orlando, where there's big nightlife. And most of the crew would be, yeah, let's go out.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:05:15

I was like, I just need to go to my room and decompress. What's wrong with me? How have they got the energy to go out partying? This is ridiculous. They must be robots. But in fact, what was happening is they were recharging their energy. The whole flight, you know, that being around people and interacting and being in a team literally fueled them up. Whereas I would get off absolutely hanging and be like, I just don't talk to me for twelve hours. So I think it started really with that understanding that I was different in that way, that I wasn't shy. I wasn't well, you know, as a performer as a kid, I never thought, oh my god, people are looking at me.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:05:55

I feel this. Or I never feel like I hate people. That's a real kind of, I think, a distinction that a a lot of interest or some are like, I just hate people. I'm like, I love people. They're amazing. I like you, Marli. You know, you're my friend. We I enjoy connecting with people and actually that, again, depth of connection in a one on one situation.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:06:16

The me as an introvert, that's so nourishing. If there were, like, 15 people talking over each other, I would get a little overwhelmed.

Marli Williams [: 00:06:23

Yeah. I think it's just like debunking some of these myths. And like you said, the power of a podcast and hearing some someone say, it's not about not liking people. Right? It's like how we refuel our energy, spending that time alone, and that depth of connection. Right? It's like that one on one time versus, like, walking into kind of, like, this open bar networking experience where there's hundreds of people that you don't know. That can be really overwhelming and really intimidating. And I think it's like this piece of, like, not making yourself wrong, and I think it's just really understanding how do I operate in a world. But I think taking some out some of these narratives away of, like, I don't like people.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:05

I don't like connection. I'm shy. Right? Some of these things that that are associated with introversion because I think that people hear I'm an introvert, and then they make up a story about who they are. That may or may not be true. You could be a shy introvert. You could be a shy extrovert, you know, like, potentially. But shyness isn't introversion.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:07:27

I love it. I can put it better myself. It but they do get mixed up. It's like people think of extroverts as being confident and introverts as being unconfident. And, you know, I spent two decades in aviation. I was an air traffic controller for seventeen years. You have to be confident doing that job. You can't sit there and go, oh, I'm not really sure.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:47

No. It isn't sure what's going on here.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:07:51

You've got to perform and you've got to be confident. And, you know, when I started this business, a good friend of mine, we've been friends for twenty five years, he said to me, oh, I'm really surprised I wouldn't have put you down as an introvert. And I was like, why not? And he said, you know, you've traveled all over the world on your own. I went, yeah, on my own. That should tell you, like, I'm happy with the solo travel. But his point was that that to him is something that a confident person does. So I think it's really important that we don't mix these terms up or label either ourselves as introverts or, you know, if we're leaders, see our team who are introverts and label them as under confident, shy, quiet, disengaged without really understanding what's going on.

Marli Williams [: 00:08:39

I think that that's so important. So I my hope today is to really unpack that and really help introverts understand what's going on so that they can remind oh, it's like almost have that that reminder that you can be confident. It's like not telling ourselves those stories that society has told us or that you have been told. You know, You know, you don't speak up in meetings, and you're not sharing your ideas, and you're not confident. Like, all these things, like, if you get if you've ever gotten that feedback and rewriting that narrative for yourself. And, you know, some of the best speakers, musicians, artists, like, people that get on stage are introverts. And, you know, in the speaking world, there is a depth to the knowledge that they have, and it doesn't mean, like, they're not confident in sharing that. It's so interesting.

Marli Williams [: 00:09:26

Like, oh, I wouldn't have thought you were an introvert because you're someone who's, like, confident on stage.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:09:31

So interesting for the speaker part. So interesting because I would say that probably 75% of the top keynote speakers are introverts, and many of them completely self confessed. And, like, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's me. Huge introvert. Laura Gassner Otten, huge introvert. Huge self confessed.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:09:49

Peter Sheehan, massive introvert. And it's not that, like you say, they're not confident. They actually have that depth of processing. They have a mastery and depth to their work that makes them the embodiment of it. And that is what comes across in their speaking, not because they get on stage going, hey, I'm awesome. Like, I'm super confident. And I think it's worth mentioning with confidence as well that it's such a fluid thing. Like, I'm very confident in certain aspects of my life and certain aspects of, say, my business.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:10:19

And there are other areas of, like, I'm not as confident in. Like, you know, I'm not a great fitness person. I'm not super confident at the gym. I'm pretty confident talking on a podcast because that's what I do, like, day in, day out. So when we put a label like unconfident, it can be really damaging. And it you know, it's okay not to feel a 100% confident in every area. But it's nothing to do with your introversion. That's just the human condition.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:44

I know that you'd research all of this a lot. Like, is there a certain percentage of people typically that are that fall on, like, the more introverted spectrum versus extrovert? Is it, like, is it fifty-fifty split? Like, what would you say?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:10:59

The latest statistics, and obviously, there's a kind of guesstimation there, is around 56 introvert. So it's actually the majority. And that, I believe, was a study done in The United States. I think if that was done in maybe parts of Asia or Scandinavia, it would be skewed even further because the traits of introversion in, say, a country like Japan are very highly rated. People are a little modest, a little more quiet. You know, the extroverted trait can seem a bit gregarious in some of those cultures. Whereas here in The here in The UK, over there in The States, people are you know, it's it is that kinda high energy, and we are in a very extroverted society. So I think it's probably maybe even a little more than 56%, if I'm honest.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:49

It is really interesting when you think about half or more than half of folks, you know, fall into that. You know? And it's a spectrum. Right? We're not like one or the other necessarily. We tend to be more one than the other. But I'm so curious, like, why you think speaking of this idea of our culture is so really emphasizes the being an extrovert and values, qualities, and characteristics of extroversion, typically more than introversion. Why is that? Where did that come from? And like and what can we do about it, you know, to, like, maybe shift that narrative? Because I think that that's, like, one of your missions is really helping people kind of here's the norms, here's the culture that we're living in. How do we start to value these qualities, these ways of being, this depth of processing in the same way?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:12:38

I think it's so interesting. There's so like, how far back we can go. But even if we go back to the '50s. In the '50s, the epitome of a, "good housewife" was someone who was very quiet, very muted, seen and not children, seen and not heard. This whole kind of dynamic, father was, you know, a salary man went out to work. Everyone wore the same suit. It was all very regimented. And then the '60s came, and it was, you know, free speech and love and, you know, let's go and do pot and go to Woodstock and all of that.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:13:17

And then the '70s again and, you know, psychedelics. And we look at the way the culture changed so quickly in that time. And the '80s were just phenomenal. I mean, Gordon Gekko was the person everyone was raving about. That was who you looked up to. A lot of the big leadership books and training came out then. Tony Robbins started selling his CDs or whatever. They were probably cassettes then on infomercials.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:13:46

And it was this if you think about that '80s energy, it's very masculine. It's very bro. That's when, you know, leadership development books started to come out. And I just feel like that just carried on as well. It carried on through the '90s. You know, the role of women had changed. Women are now in the workplace, and they have become more emasculated to try and fight to get equal. Right? And you look at all of this energy, it's all very loud.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:14:14

It's all very outwards. Probably from the seventies onwards, no one was being told, oh, that's great because you're behind the scenes and you're quiet. It was like, me, me, me. Like, let's get out here. And I think it just became the norm. It just became this expectation that leaders would be charismatic and loud. And by the way, charismatic can be quiet also. But this idea of someone that's out spoken with a booming voice and a big presence and confident and friendly to everyone and anything that wasn't that was somehow less than.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:14:53

And and those traits that are so important in business and in leadership in particular, that emotional intelligence, that depth of processing, that active listening, that ability to read the room, that all for some reason fell away. But I think we're in this age now where people are recognizing how important that is, especially in the age of AI because those are actually the traits and skills that are irreplaceable.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:19

It's so true. It's so true. I would love to hear from you. You know, again, looking at this from, like, an individual perspective, reclamation over that.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:15:33

It's the right word.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:34

I don't know. Like, to reclaim that, to see the strength in it. And on this other side of the spectrum, if anybody out there is leading teams, organizations, companies, how can we help them really understand the the power that they bring to the table and the skills and the awareness and, like, again, the processing, the observation, the awareness, and see the strength in that. So it's like both for both kind of crews, you know, the individuals, to really elevate the idea of introversion as this, you know, I love this, the ambitious introvert. It's not that they're not confident or shy or all these things. It's like, I would love to hear how you help people find their way in that work and really help them reclaim their power. I mean, that's what I really hear that you do with individuals and teams and companies and organizations around the world. So what's the secret sauce? How do we unpack that and help people? Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:35

Like the reclaim.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:16:36

I love that word. I really do. And the reason that I chose the name, the ambitious introvert, and I had that juxtaposition, because a lot of my clients would have considered themselves extroverts. Because again of these tags, they're like, oh, but I'm I'm not nervous in public or I'm not shy and but they would realize that they've drained their battery to the max and they were doing what other people were doing. And it wasn't working for them. They were they were exhausted a little like me after the flights. So that's why it wasn't like, oh, I'm, like, the wounded introvert. And it was more like, you know, no, I wanna go places and I wanna do things.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:17:13

But damn, I'm tired. Like, how can I how can I find the energy? So the first thing I'd say is to anyone listening that is introverted, connect back to what it is. It is how you refuel and how deeply you process things. And I think while we can keep remembering that, it suddenly becomes very neutral. There's no charge to it. It's not negative. It's not positive. It is just a way.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:17:37

So the same way that, Marli, you might be like, man, I'm feeling a bit low. I'm gonna, like, hang out with some people and get some energy. I might be like, I'm feeling a bit low. I'm just gonna hang out with myself and the cat and read a book. And, you know, in a couple of hours, I'll be like a new person. So none neither of that is good or bad. It's just our individual needs. So I always think of it as like nutrition.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:17:59

Just the same way that sometimes, you know, you may wanna eat some fast food and other times you need to go and eat something healthy to get the vitamins and minerals. And it's the same with recharging. As an introvert, yeah, you can go out. You can party if that's your thing. You can hang out with big groups of people like I did in Nashville for the Impact eleven event. But then you're gonna go and, you know, if you have too many McDonald's, you're gonna you're gonna need to go to Whole Foods and stock up because that's what's actually gonna recharge you.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:27

So it's like really understanding, like, one of the main pieces of the puzzle is understanding your energy. It's really about knowing what drains you, what sustains you. And I think it's sometimes it's like giving yourself permission. You know, some people are gonna go out to the club and, like, get crazy, and it's like but then the next day, you might be totally exhausted. So it's really like, how do I refuel? And I I appreciate what you said. It's not negative or positive, bad, good, right, wrong. I think that sometimes we have those labels. Like, who I am isn't okay, and I should be more like, I should have the energy to go out and party, or I should have the enter you know, the energy to go into this big group.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:10

But, really, when I take a beat, it's like, can we give ourselves, like, permission to pause and say, if you are feeling drained or exhausted, to sit with that question of, like, what do I need right now? Is it a warm bath? Is it a cup of tea? Is it a a night at home? And like you said, you might just need a few hours, and then you might feel have the energy to go out. So I think that that piece of really understanding your energy and your battery levels, you know, like, I think about it as, like, your phone. Are you the person who, like, lets it get to, like, 7% before you plug it in? Or are you the person if it gets below 50%, you're like, where is a charger?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:19:49

That's me. It's going on. I just got an electric car, and it went down. It came fully charged. It went down 75%. I'm like, I'm gonna need to charge it soon. I'm totally not gonna need to charge it soon. It's got, like, hundreds of miles on it.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:20:03

But it's interesting you, you see that battery going down. But you make such a good point. It is that awareness. And look, if you are in a career that requires, like, travel and maybe dealing with a lot of people or you're an entrepreneur like me, which, you know, you probably go into events and working on different time zones, then it's so important to have that knowledge. And look, I went to the Nashville event. It was three days. It was, you know, long haul for me. It was a big time difference.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:20:31

And the second evening, I went back to the hotel. There was a free dinner and drinks and networking. I was like, I can't, I can't do this. I've had, you know, like, two a day and an evening and now a day. And there's a whole day and evening tomorrow, and I'm not and someone was like, oh, you'll miss out. And I was like, no. I just need to go and have room service and eat pasta in bed. And the next day, I was, like, fully back.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:20:59

But that is that awareness, like you say, and that battery level isn't gonna be the same for everyone, and we're all gonna be charged and depleted by different things. And that is something I say to any introvert listening is you will know when you've had too much people time. And it might be great, and there might be people you love, and it might be amazing, but you will know, and you'll feel it. And if you can kind of set it like charge, if you can stop at 80%, you know, if you stop at 80%, like, it's better for the battery health, like, long term. If you can stop at 80% and be like, this is good, I feel complete. I'm gonna go and recharge now. You'll probably be able to keep doing more than if you drain yourself every time.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:43

Just go full out. And then you get sick, and you're exhausted, like, just totally totally depleted versus, like, you know, how do I I think about this even in, like, at an event like that. How do you fill your cup up in small ways? Going up to your room, taking a twenty minute power nap during lunch, resetting, going for a walk.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:22:06

You know, walk for me is that if I can get outside and walk, which Americans think is hilarious because no walks anywhere. I'm like, where can I walk here? Where's the pavement? So they're like, yeah. Do you want do you want a taxi? I'm like, no. Like, actually wanna walk.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:21

I actually wanna walk. Yeah. I was at an event, and they're like, do you wanna ride back to the hotel? I was like, no. I'm good. It's literally a ten minute walk. But, you know, I think sometimes, just like our phones, our batteries, it's like, oh, if I'm down 75%, it's only gonna take you know, if I have the, like, the quick charger, it might take five or ten minutes to recharge my phone back to versus if I, like, let it get fully drained. Right? And then it's like, we need more time to recover, more time to regroup. So how can I kind of have that awareness? I think I think it's like paying attention and giving yourself permission.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:58

Right? And people are gonna, oh, you know, you're gonna miss out. And there's a term. Right? Like, the FOMO.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:23:04

The FOMO. Of course. And we're surrounded by this fear of missing out of things. Even if we don't wanna do them, it's a primal instinct. Like, to try doing something without me.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:14

My friend, Yasmin coined this term JOMO, the joy of missing out. And it's kind of like really connecting with yourself. Like, what do I need to resource myself, to fill myself up so that I can show up tomorrow recharged and present? I'm gonna probably make more meaningful connections tomorrow, fully recharged, than I would if I pushed through and just tried to not be tired. Because you're not gonna have as great as conversations. You know, it's just like it's not gonna be as meaningful and effective if you're going against your nature.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:23:50

And that's the thing. It's the it's the pushing against what you probably know deep down, but feeling like you quote unquote should. Last week, I just off boarded private client I'd been working with. She just been promoted to pretty high level role and she was, you know, she was finding it tiring. It was new. She was out of her comfort zone. It was there are many things that she didn't think she would excel at as an introvert in the role. And she was very, very keen to make a good impression, obviously.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:24:21

So she'd got herself into this place of, like, checking her phone straight away in the morning and opening the laptop before breakfast because she wanted to appear engaged and willing. And turned out that everyone else on her team was an extrovert. And she was trying to keep up with them. She tried to work the same amount of hours and be online and, you know, be active on teams all at the same time. And if she was falling behind, then she's like, my, you know, my concentration's going. I don't feel like I'm as effective and I'm really drained. And for her, like you say, it was the permission of saying, right, I'm different to these people and what's important is that I do a good job. So what are we gonna do about that? And for her, it was micro changes.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:25:02

It was not opening the laptop or looking at a phone till after coffee. It was getting out to walk, funnily enough, to walk the dog every morning rather than diving into work and feeling like her day had no start and end. And I mean, you know, this is probably effective for extroverts as well, for energy management. But the point was, her colleagues were being they were fueling each other by being constant, you know, from seven in the morning on text and group chats and then being on Teams. And she was trying to do this deep work, which she's very well suited to. Notifications were pinging off. So again, to say, hey, I'm just gonna switch my notifications off for an hour so I can get this thing done. Once she voiced it out like that, they were like, oh, yeah.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:25:46

Sure. Fine.

Marli Williams [: 00:25:47

It's like the energetic boundaries. Right? And it's not even just the peopling, but like you even said, emails, dings, rings, social media, distractions. Right? Because I think one of the other things that you mentioned is this deep processing, this ability to go to reflect and to be responsive from, like, a maybe a more thoughtful place, whereas, like, an extrovert might just, like, shout something out. Like, I have this idea. But if an introvert shares an idea, that means that they probably spent a lot of time thinking about it. And so those the noise and the distractions can also be a part of, like, yeah, what are those energetic boundaries that I set, and how can I communicate that? And also, like, get things done and get things done well and effectively, and I don't have to do it the way everyone else is doing it. Like, if you're the only introvert on a team of extroverts, you can think and again, going back to this, like, narrative of what what's wrong with me? Why can't I do it like them? Or why am I so drained, but they're not? Right? And we do this compare and despair game versus really just, like, again, cultivating that awareness and then communicating that.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:26:58

And I think that is the key for a lot of introverts is being able to communicate it because it's great when extroverts have an idea and shout it out. And everyone's just, like, shouting out tons of, you know, stuff to respond to and having a big brainstorm. But, yeah, you might wanna take it away overnight and sit with it. And you might come back with an absolute kind of gem that's been polished up. And I think, you know, there's some narratives out there on the Internet that's very kind of anti extrovert from, like, an introvert. And I'm not into that at all because I believe that we all complement each other. I believe that every different aspect is needed. So if I hear a ton of people shouting stuff out and having ideas, I'm like, great.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:27:40

Like, what do I and then it goes deeper because I'm sitting there disengaged. I'm not sitting there not speaking up because I'm shy or quiet. I'm sitting there because I'm taking in the information and processing it in a way that hopefully can be effective for the whole team. So, yeah. And, you know, in light of your question about how can leaders help the introverts on their teams, like, if someone says to you, like, can I just take some time with this? Can I, like, I don't have an answer for you right now? Can I go away and sit with this? Can I go away and think about it? Just know that that's their process. They're probably not gonna come and bring you something rubbish. Introverts generally are not just shouting out their, you know, the first thing that comes into their mind. They're probably gonna give it some thought.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:28:27

One of the comments that I loved is from Ivy Gustafson, actually, who's one of our coaches. And Ivy's, like, big, larger than life personality, redhead. She's, like, amazing. She's a huge introvert. She's, like, when she did my onboarding course, she's like, I'm such an introvert. I'm so excited about this. And one of the things she says, you know, she coaches some of the biggest speakers in the industry, is someone will ask her a question and she goes, let me take it for a walk or let me sleep on it. I'll come back to you.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:28:57

Because she knows that she can formulate a really, really powerful effective piece of feedback versus just saying the first thing that comes into her head. And I do this with my private advisory clients. Like, I get up in the morning. I listened if they've left me voice notes or questions. And then I'll go about my morning for a bit. I'm gonna go for a walk, you know, go and get coffee. And these things are kind of in my head. And I don't tend to respond to them till the afternoon because it formulates.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:29:24

And I feel like I've got something more comprehensive to share. That's just the way I process. I've been able to lean into that luckily, and my clients know that. They would rather have a few hours delayed response than an instant response that's not that good.

Marli Williams [: 00:29:38

Yeah. And in this world that, like, lives in this, like, instant gratification, order something on Amazon, it comes two hours later, it's kinda like, I think, allowing yourself to know know yourself well enough to, like, understand how you work, how you operate, how you process. And then, like, again, the power of communicating that to take the pressure off of yourself. Because when we live in this, like, this illusion that people want us and need us to respond within minutes of receiving a text message, an audio message, an email, we're putting all that pressure, and how much energy is that costing us? But if you've taken that pressure off and you've communicated, you know, I listen to the messages in the morning, I respond in the afternoon, here's why, here's what works for me, I wanna come get you know, share a thoughtful response. Then it's like, oh, they win and you win. If you know that you process that way and then you haven't communicated it and there's some sort of expectation that you don't think you're meeting, I think that can be really exhausting.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:30:40

Absolutely. Or if there's judgment from leaders and unintentionally, you know, judgment of, oh, this person doesn't speak up in meetings, or this person never has anything to say. It may just be that actually the decision's been made and, you know, all the extroverts spoke and that person didn't have anything at that point. They wanted to take it away and sit with it. And afterwards, they might feel like, well, you know, that decision's made now. That meeting's over. I I can't add anything. If that line of communication is open, it's probably much easier for someone to come back a few hours later and say, hey, I ruminated on what we're talking about.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:31:19

How about this? Or did we consider this? And it's gonna be a different viewpoint, and that's so important.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:25

Right. Multiple perspectives. And one of the ways that leaders can help introverts that I've heard before too is if there's a question or a brainstorm session or something that the team is working on. You know, let's say it's Monday and the meeting's on Wednesday. Hey. This Wednesday, we're gonna have a brainstorming session about x, y, and z. Here are the three questions that we're gonna explore together as a team. Our goal is by the end of that meeting, we're gonna walk away with an idea.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:53

Whatever. Right? Whatever the thing is. But I am giving people time to process those questions, to think about those questions in advance. And so, like, everyone can win because you have time to, like, sit with it and then bring your ideas to the table versus coming to that meeting on Wednesday, here are the three questions, and then just diving in because you're not allowing that processing time. And that, again, it's a win for everybody when you do that.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:32:26

That's the biggest thing I think for me is knowing that when introverts are energized, when they are in their power, when they've reclaimed it, as you say beautifully said, When they're confident in their abilities, they know what they're strong at. They know what they're not so strong at, and they are able to communicate it. It helps everyone. It's beneficial to everyone versus them feeling disempowered, feeling overlooked, feeling disengaged, feeling like, you know, they're too late to hiding the in and time. I, you know, didn't have anything decent to say. When they are really in that empowered role, I'm gonna say, it helps everyone. It lifts everyone up, introverts and extroverts.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:09

And everyone can benefit from that. You know, in a way, it's like, you know, I think about, like, accessibility benefits everyone. Right? Nobody's losing because it's more accessible. Right? We're all on the same team. We're all on the same team. How do we help each accessible. Right?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:33:19

We're all on the same team.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:20

We're all on the same team. How do we help each other win? And, you know, if I'm more extroverted, I might, you know, again, give questions in advance, but, like, hey. Do you have anything else to contribute or to share? And, you know, really, like, inviting those conversations to the table, understanding how the people that you work with. It could be, like, your people that you kind of supervise, but it can also be your colleagues or your peers of, like, so so I'm so fascinated. I'm I love personality tests. I am curious how you feel about those, like, within the workplace or or how to help people kind of, like, whether that's self assess or do those you know, whether it's the DISC or the Myers Briggs or this to, like, to really understand themselves because I think that that's such a big piece of the puzzle, understanding yourself. What are the gifts? What are the strengths that I have to bring? What are the challenges? What are the opportunities for growth? Like and I know that sometimes personality tests can kind of get a bad rap. So I'm curious from your perspective studying this if there's one that you like more than others, if you think that they're valuable for, again, for both, like, the individual awareness piece of the puzzle and also, like, the team dynamic leadership piece.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:34:34

I love personality tests. With one huge caveat.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:40

Yes. Knew it. Okay. Okay. Give it to us. Give it to us.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:34:42

Which is that we don't allow them to put us in a box. We never allow a a result to tell us we can't do something, but instead to use it as a way to ascertain where we're best focused, where we're best gonna use our energy, where we're most valuable, where we are the most competent, where our skills are, all of the good stuff. Because what I've seen is a lot of companies do Myers Briggs when they onboard someone, and then they do absolutely nothing with it. It just sits on your HR file and, like, nothing's really then drop you down with it. Here it is. What I will say about Myers Briggs, I think it's fantastic for self awareness. When I read that I was INFJ, I almost cried because I felt like so seen and, you know, this is me and this is great. It can change over time.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:35:34

It's on your perspective. And something I've seen I alluded to earlier with a lot of clients is when they were in very high functioning corporate roles, they tested as an e because that's how they were showing up. That was their self identity at the time. When they've maybe moved into other roles or started their own business or, you know, taken sabbaticals and taken it again, they've gone, oh, I'm an I now. So it is influenced by your environment and who you think you are.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:02

Sometimes it's not just who you actually are. It's who you think you are or who you think you should be in that particular role.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:36:12

Yes. One of my clients, for instance, tested as a j all through her career, and she was in a role where she had to be very organized, very structured. She was arranging things. And she's a creative. Like, she could do that. But it's not what she was, like, made to do. And as soon as she transitioned into her own business and leaned into her identity as a creative, she tested again. She was like, I'm a pea.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:36:36

I was like, that makes so much more sense. And, you know, she actually kind of rebels against structure now. It's so interesting. So Yeah. It is really interesting. Can doesn't mean we should. Right? And it's just understanding the effects of our environment.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:51

Right. Gay Hendricks in his book, The Big Leap, talks about the difference between your zone of excellence and your zone of genius. And the idea of the zone of excellence is, like, it's what you kind of become known for. You're good at it, but it doesn't actually energize you or bring you joy or, like, you're not always in flow, but you're good at it. So you're like and then we get rewarded for that, but it might not be our natural way of being versus your zone of genius. It's like things flow. You feel, you know, like, alive and, like, that energy. And it's like that that's the source of your energy.

Marli Williams [: 00:37:27

And so, you know, what I love about I I love what you said about personality tests because I think that they can be really validating and really affirming, but it's like not letting it you off the hook, you know, in a way of, like, well, I can't do x, y, and z because I'm just an INFJ, or I'm just a a ENFP or whatever. You know? Because I think sometimes it's hard for people to articulate their gifts and their strengths and what they bring to the table. You know? Sometimes I say asking someone what their greatest strengths are is, like, asking a fish what it's like to be a really great swimmer. They're just like, I'm just doing my thing, and you're swimming in the sea of your own awesomeness. We have such a hard time naming it, articulating it, and seeing the value in it. And the first time I remember taking the Myers Briggs, because some people think, like, don't put me in a box. For me, when I read what an INFP was or INFP, that's funny, an ENFP, it was like it gave me permission. That's how I felt about it.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:27

It was like, there's a reason I am the way that I am, and these are the gifts and these are the strengths. And it's kinda like to see that as, like, permission to be more of that and to bring those gifts, to bring those strengths to the table because, you know, when we're talking about managing our energy, when we're in our zone of genius as it were, when we're in our strengths, when we know what those are, when we're in roles that value that, and we're on teams and working with leaders who value what we have to bring to the table, guess what? We're gonna have more energy.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:39:00

Which is the fuel for everything awesome that that we are gonna be doing. Just quick side note, Gay Hendricks is amazing. He was on the ambitious introvert podcast talking about his own of genius, and he is an ambitious introvert. Look at that. So if anyone wants to hear more about him,

Marli Williams [: 00:39:17

We'll put the link to that podcast episode in the show notes.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:39:21

It is. It's so much like you say about energy of doing something that, you know, you're pretty good at and people are like, oh, you're pretty good at this. And you just get stuck. And I don't know if I can have a favorite personality test. But the one I think that honestly had the most impact on me was CliftonStrengths. And I only took it a few years ago. So I've been in this world for, you know, almost a decade now. And that was the one that I avoided.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:39:46

It felt corporate, and I didn't really get it. I didn't know the branding of it was very stuffy. And then I met someone in a mastermind I was in who was a CliftonStrengths coach. And she said, I've got support. I'll give you a debrief. And I was like, okay. And she came back with these five strengths. And I just looked at them and was like, that's not me. That's like, the words just didn't resonate. My number one was strategic. I was like, that's not I'm intuitive.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:40:14

I'm not strategic. What what's this all about? But when I read it, I was like, oh, it doesn't mean strategic. Like, you're making a big plan. It was a strategic way of thinking, like three d thinking, big picture thinking. Right.

Marli Williams [: 00:40:26

The deep processing.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:40:28

And, of course, I was an air traffic controller. So three d picture thinking. I was literally looking at a radar, connecting patterns and, you know, yeah. So it all made sense. And the thing that I went, like, oh, is that a thing? Like you say, you're just in it and you're like, oh, yeah. Of course, I think like that or of course, I do that. And when I shared with some friends and some clients what my top strength was, they were like, yeah, obviously. Like, they saw it and I didn't necessarily see it in that way.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:40:56

So like you say, you can be just swimming in your own brilliance and thinking, oh, everyone does this. Everyone. That that was my I said, but doesn't everyone think like this? Like, no. People don't. And, yeah, I have a lot of the execution strengths are very low on mine. I'm not a good I'm not a good in the weeds kind of minutiae person. Like, that that's not where that's not where I should be.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:21

I think I have, like, activation or something. Like, I'm really good, like, at starting things. It's like a lot of

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:41:25

You've got the start up energy and not not but

Marli Williams [: 00:41:28

My top one on StreaksFinder is woo.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:41:32

Really?

Marli Williams [: 00:41:33

Oh, yeah.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:41:34

My woo's really loud.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:36

I got the woo, which is funny because I'm like, I am woo and, like, you know, just like

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:41:40

But it doesn't mean woo in the same way as it does it, which is the same.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:43

Winning others over. So it's just that, like, that that extroversion and that that charisma as it were. But, again, introverts can have charisma. I love Vanessa Van Edwards' definition of charisma. You know Vanessa Van Edwards?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:41:54

I love Vanessa Van Edwards. Fans

Marli Williams [: 00:41:56

of people. She's Yeah. Incredible. Shout out to Vanessa. All the research she does out there. And charisma equals warmth plus competence. And when I think about, you know, when you walk into a room, it's like, do I like you? It's warmth. Are you relatable? Are you approachable? Are you open energy? Is there a warmth to you? Right? Are you kind? Plus competence.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:17

Like, do I trust you? Do I like you? Do I trust you? And competence is, like, again, that sense of feeling empowered and feeling confident in, like, your knowledge, your skills, your wisdom, your strengths. Like, it's like knowing yourself and what you bring to the room, to the team, to the table. And that's one of the things that I love about those personality tests. And and taking a lot of different ones, because I love taking a lot of different ones and seeing the threads, seeing the through lines, seeing, like, oh, like, they're similar words or similar language, and really helping you understand, like, how do I again, when we're thinking about what are the stories that I tell myself about myself. And we can't see our own magic from inside the jar. Yeah. You know, we can't relook the label the label so so to speak. So those things, I think, are really valuable to really help us all kind of really cultivate that awareness.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:09

And, you know, to find out the from your partner, your team, your friends, like, you know, how do you how do you fill yourself up? How do you get energy? Find out like, start to ask yourself those questions. What gives me energy? When I'm depleted, what are the things that I love to do? And I love to how how people create, like, a, you know, an energy filler, like, bucket list of, like or what are the things that really, again, sustain your energy or that fill you up? What are when you think about your energy, what's a plus? And a walk, morning coffee without my tech, reading a book, taking a bath, and, like and again, depending on where you're at, it could be spending time with friends and or being in nature. Right? What is that for you and knowing how to how to fill your cup back up when you're when you're feeling drained and depleted?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:43:59

And that's something that a lot of introverts kind of miss is the belonging aspect. So we still need connection and, you know, we need deep connection. And I've always seen this. I've had, you know, a a smaller friend group, but I've never really, you know, hung out in big groups. It's always been more one on one and, you know, that spending, like, a whole day with someone having a really great chat and really catching up. And that to me is and to many interests, very, very nourishing. But we might think, oh, I'm tired, so I need to be alone. And quite often, when my clients are feeling that they, you know, they need to recharge and something's off and their energy is not quite right, I'll say, when was the last time you hang out with a friend or had, like, a a deep conversation or spent time with and they're like, oh, well, you know.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:44:48

And that when that is missing, that's crucial. So if you're an introvert, don't think, like, oh, it just means that I need to be on my own to reach out. You absolutely do need to be in your own energy to recharge. But you're gonna get so much connection and so filled up. Yeah. I'm gonna feel really connected when we hop off this call. I'm gonna feel really nourished because we've had a great deep conversation about something I'm passionate about. So you need to find people that you're passionate about.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:45:13

You need to find people that you care about the same things. Maybe I have the same mission or the same values. You know, you and I care deeply about leadership and business. And so for me, this is a great conversation. If I wasn't having conversations like this on the daily, I I might feel really flat and not know why. So don't always hide yourself away, introvert. It's, you know, a a book and a bath and all of that stuff is, you know, needed and fantastic. Sometimes you might need to truly connect with someone, not just social media or not just, you know, small talk chitchat, which can often be trained, but actually, like, have deep conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:45:50

Yeah. I think that that that's so valuable. Again, it's not that introverts don't like people or don't like connection, but it's the type of connection. You know? And even my partner, like, she's a big extrovert, but, like, she loves having, like she loves getting deep. She's like and as an extrovert, I've really been more intentional about spending one on one time with people. Because I'll go to a party or I'll go to a networking event or I'll walk in a room and I'll know a bunch of people, but I don't feel known. And to be really intentional, like, hey, let's go for a hike together, or let's go, you know, take a walk together, go get coffee, one on one, not just in those big groups. And so I think that, you know, we all need belonging, whether you're an introvert or extrovert, and it's like finding and, like, quality over quantity.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:39

It's not about having, like, a hundred friends. If you have a few close friends, how are we, you know, building those and nurturing those connections and those relationships? Because those can be really nourishing, like you said. As we bring things home, what final words of wisdom do you wanna leave folks with? And any final thoughts? And then where can people find you, learn more about you, and your amazing work in this world?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:47:03

Well, thank you so much for having me. It was an absolute pleasure to chat to you. Final words and thoughts. Trust yourself. We've run above everything else. Everything we've talked about, you know, personality tests and all of that, they're great. They are a 100% great for awareness. But if something feels off, trust yourself.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:47:24

If you feel depleted and you feel you need time on your own, like, give it a go and see what happens. If you feel like you need time around people, you know, don't be like, oh, I'm an introvert, so I I should be spending more time alone. If you're feeling that connection, it really is about knowing ourselves because like you said before, it's a spectrum. It's not just like all introverts are this way, all extroverts are that way. So tune in tune in and feel and explore. See what works. Maybe taking yourself off to, you know, a cabin in the middle of nowhere for a whole weekend off grid is marvelous for some introverts. And maybe for others, they just need two or three hours alone on a Saturday morning, and then they wanna be connecting around family.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:48:06

So don't think there's a right and wrong way. There's only the right and wrong way for you. But as with anything in life, it's exploration and trying it on, seeing if it fits.

Marli Williams [: 00:48:16

Trust yourself. I love that so much. Beautiful. Where can people find you in your work in the world?

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:48:22

Everywhere I am at the ambitious introvert, so that is pretty easy. The ambitiousintrovert.com, the ambitious introvert podcast. And I'm also on LinkedIn/emmalouparkes and also Instagram @emmalouparkes.

Marli Williams [: 00:48:36

Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, I am so grateful for this powerful and thought provoking conversation to help people reclaim this sense of self and to feel empowered in who they are and, like you said, to really tune in. You know, tune into your energy and what's going to nourish you, what's gonna fill you up. Because when we are fully recharged, when we're fully resourced, we can be better people, better parents, better employees, better bosses, better speakers, better coaches. Everything that we do is impacted by our energy. So choose something today to fill you up, to refuel. And thank you again so much for joining us here today.

Marli Williams [: 00:49:20

For those of you out there listening, I'd love to hear your golden nuggets, insights, thoughts, takeaways. And thank you again so much for sharing your magic and your wisdom with us today. Appreciate you.

Emma-Louise Parkes [: 00:49:30

Oh, thank you, Marli. It was a pleasure.

Marli Williams [: 00:49:32

Alright, everybody. We'll see you next time. Take care. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction.

Marli Williams [: 00:50:13

This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.