Unleash Your Magic: Create Offers That Inspire Action & Deliver Results -59

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Marli Williams [: 00:00:00

Foreign. Well, hey there. What is happening? Welcome back to the Marli Williams Podcast where this week we are doing a deep dive into creating offers that are in alignment with your soul. What does that even mean? I think one of the hardest things for me as a full time entrepreneur now for the past eight years is how do we package our magic? How do we create offers that are in alignment with who we are and of greatest service to those we want to lead, coach, guide and mentor. And we are diving deep with the amazing offer architect and strategic mentor today, Emily Walker, where she's going to walk me through the questions that she asks people that she works with and using me as like a case study. And how do we craft and create these offers that are so juicy and light you up from the inside out. So if you are a coach, a business owner, an entrepreneur, or you want to be, this is going to be a powerful, powerful conversation and I cannot wait to dive in. Let's do this.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:17

Hey, everyone, what's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams Podcast where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams Podcast begins now. Let's dive in. We are hanging out with my new friend Emily Walker today who is an offer architect and strategic mentor. And what I love about her and her work, as I'm getting to know her, is this question of how do we build sustainable and scalable businesses that are really in alignment with who we are in the world that makes the impact that we all are here to make.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:21

So if you are a coach, a mentor, a facilitator, a speaker, a business owner, this conversation is going to be juicy and powerful. And I am so stoked to have you here, Emily, with us today.

Emily Walker [: 00:02:33

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. Just like, even with what we were talking about before we hit record, I'm like, oh, this is good. This is a good one today.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:41

I know. I'm just like, oh my gosh, teach me everything that you know in the next 45 minutes. So that's what we're going to do. You have an opportunity to, like, introduce yourself, your work and a little bit about your background and your story to the community and that can really kind of like tee us up for having this really juicy conversation today.

Emily Walker [: 00:03:02

Thank you everyone for having me here for listening. I always love an opportunity just to completely geek out about all things. So really everything that I do centers around supporting emerging experts and established authorities and really crafting this transformational body of work that not only delivers powerful results, but can really hold your fullest self, your fullest expression, the most authentic you and that big beautiful life that you want to live. And I often say that I got into this work by like kind of face planting into it while running the opposite direction from a career I didn't want to have. When I was doing my master's degree, I thought I was going to be a French teacher. And I was like, I love education, I love teaching. I love seeing that like spark people get when it clicks and it ahas. And then I was like, you know, there's something about this path that doesn't feel right for me.

Emily Walker [: 00:03:51

And I kind of stuck, stumbled into this world of offer architecture and learning design. And really the main gateway into this world is through corporate. And so I was designing, you know, certification programs, workshops, I was facilitating, I was doing a lot of this work in the corporate space, but a lot of it was compliance training. So it was like hazardous materials, like how to avoid asbestos on this one, like boat vessel near my island. And I was like, you know, I'm really loving the designing of the learning, but I'm really not loving the soul sucking topics that I'm having to design around. And so that was around the time that the online business space really started to blow up. We started to see people talking about course creation and scalable offers and like, how can you design an entire business where you like, don't have to work with people in person, you can work with people all over the world. And I was noticing as part of those conversations that the main people dominating the field of offer design had marketing backgrounds.

Emily Walker [: 00:04:51

And so they were talking about like from a marketing standpoint, what's going to sell, what's going to sell, what's going to sell? And I'm over here like, what's going to get results? What's going to transform people, what's going to support you as a facilitator in the way that you want to hold space. And so I decided to kind of take all of this like corporate knowledge that I had and bring it over into the more magical side of entrepreneurship where I was like, oh, people are like showing up and they're like in these incredible niches and they're wanting to share their brilliance, like, but all of these bro marketers are telling you how to do it in one very specific way and not really giving you any other opportunities. And I was like, okay, I think there's. There's room for me here. And so that's how I just really started kind of building my practice, building my business, and working with people to go, like, let. Let's design things differently. Let's start to do things differently.

Marli Williams [: 00:05:41

I love that so much because I think that the online space, while really powerful, can be really overwhelming. And this, like, illusion that there's, like, one way to do it and one to get it right in order for people to, like, sell the thing, buy the thing, like, make six figures in six days. Like, all of this, like, marketing that's out there, that can feel, you know, it's like, how do you communicate the value of what you do and just because you're good at the thing, right? Like, you can be an amazing coach or mentor or healer or guide for people, and yet, like, 80% of being an entrepreneur, an online entrepreneur, is the sales, is the marketing, is like, how do I find the words and the language to communicate that one and also deliver on that? Like you said, it's like, it's not just getting people in the door, the sales marketing piece, but it's like, what's the experience? And, like, you know, I love your background in, like, facilitation and learning design and curriculum design of, like, how do we, like, craft and create an offer that's also getting people that result and communicating that so that they, like, sign up and say yes, but, like, also are really stoked about, like, their experience of that program that you're offering. And like you said, it's like, sometimes I find that when we are the person who holds that work, like the coach, it's so hard to see our genius, to see the magic, to see what is it? Like, how can I take all of my.

Marli Williams [: 00:07:14

Like the constellation of all my different knowledge, training, experiences, expertise, and what is the best medium in order to, like, communicate that. To create, like, that offer? Like, whether it's an online course, a membership program, a mastermind, a retreat, a keynote talk, a book, a podcast? Like, there's just. There's so many ways to offer our gifts to the world. I love your approach of how do we find the most, like, aligned and authentic way to do that? So Emily and I were jamming before this, and I was like, what if we just for funsies, used me as, like, a Little bit of a case study in really kind of, like, trying to bring this to life, instead of, like, I could say, like, well, how do you work with clients? And, like, how do you help them? It's like, well, I've been trying to figure out, like, my offer right now I've won, which is like, I will give a keynote talk to, like, hundreds of people and share this idea or this message, and yet there's.

Marli Williams [: 00:08:14

I know that there's something in me that's wanting to come through, and I haven't quite figured out how to articulate it, how to communicate it, and how to, like, really bring this body of work to life in a new way that feels in alignment to me. So how does that sound? We're almost, like, doing like, a. Like a mini little coaching sesh.

Emily Walker [: 00:08:34

Let's do it. Let's get into it. I got. I've got my notepad. I've got my pen. I'm, like, ready?

Marli Williams [: 00:08:38

Oh, my goodness. Okay. So, like, where. I mean, because,

Marli Williams [: 00:08:40

And for those of you listening, it's like, thinking about. Emily's gonna ask me some questions. And, like, if you're someone out there who's trying to figure out, like, I'm working on creating an aligned offer, like, anything that, you know, you can engage in this conversation in that. In that way for your own business or whatever it is that you're up to and working on. So let's do it. Let's go. I'm excited.

Emily Walker [: 00:09:03

The caveat that I want to give for everyone listening, even for our conversation here, is that this process takes time, and often there's a lot of narrative out there in the space of, like, well, I designed my offer in a weekend. Like, I whipped this together in 24 hours, and it's like, no, this is straight up not true. And even when I'm working with my clients privately, even just getting to the point of mapping out, we usually start with a signature framework. Like, how do we take all of your brilliance and, like, surface that so we can actually quantify it and clarify it and be like, oh, these are the five pillars of your work that can take, you know, three to five sessions. And then mapping out your offer ecosystem can take a couple of hours. And then getting into the offers. So what we're going to do today, you know, how I like to work, is basically asking you 5 million questions and, like, how do we pull things out of your brain? But for. For you and for people listening, it's just knowing that, like, there's gonna be a little taste of like, how do we get started? How do we play? But also giving yourself that permission just to like, have the space and like play with it and reflect and like iterate, know that it's gonna unfold over time as well.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:03

I appreciate you saying that because in this world of like instant gratification, we're like, I want it right now. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:10:10

That's the marketing that it's like, oh, I'll help you create your offer in an hour or something like that. Where really being able to like flush it out, articulate it and have the space to like ask some of these questions and to sit with them and to reflect on them. And so thank you for that caveat and you know, for everybody out there listening, it's like this is an iterative process. It's not like, yeah, like, there's no quick, quick fix or overnight, you know, like clarity necessarily, but that is, it's a bit of a journey to uncover. Like you said that. That brilliance, that magic, that offer. Thank you for sharing that.

Emily Walker [: 00:10:52

You're so welcome. Okay, so the place that I always want to start with is what is the life that you want to live? Like, talk to me about what does your kind of like day to day, week to week, like, look like? Like, is it filled with calls? Is it like wide open space to travel? Is it like, I want lots of touch points with my people? Or is it like, I just want to like, be doing my thing and knowing that people's lives are being changed. Like, I want to, I want to hear a bit about, like, what's the life that you want to live?

Marli Williams [: 00:11:23

Such a good question. And I'm like, I want everybody else out there to think like, what is the life that you want to live? And to start from that place, especially when we're entrepreneurs, it's like we get to make up the rules versus like, oh, what's going to sell? Yeah, what do people want? What can I. You know, it's just such a different come from and starting point. So I'm just like naming that. Like, I love that. Like, as a, as an initial question, what does the life that I want to live look like? And I. One of my. So my top three values, our freedom.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:59

So it's like time freedom, creative freedom, financial freedom. It's just like, I don't want, I don't like being like locked down, held back, like impact. So making an impact on people's lives. Like, it's like more people, the better. And then like community connection. Yeah. Like a sense of belonging I would say those are my top three for sure. And again, I think that freedom piece is like around my like schedule of like no one gets to tell me what to do.

Marli Williams [: 00:12:31

I do not like having like a calendar full of calls. I mean, I really started out my business doing one on one coaching and that felt pretty draining. I think I was good at it, but it was energetically depleting and so I didn't love a day full of like back to back one on one calls. Right now my schedule is like pretty sweet in that I get paid to go give these keynotes and like sometimes there's a lot all at once and sometimes there's like a lull, you know, or like gaps in between. But I think what I love about that is like I get paid to go like, give the talk and then it's done. I think sometimes as like a coach or running like groups or masterminds, I have felt a lot of like, it's all up to me, it's all on me to like this. I think that that pressure to like get some sort of result and like individuals investing in me and paying for me versus like, oh, it's a corporation, it's a company, it's an event and like they're going to pay somebody to be the speaker and like there's anyway. So I'm just, I don't.

Marli Williams [: 00:13:39

I'm trying to like come back to the initial question of what is my ideal life look like. It's like having the freedom to do what I want, when I want, with who I want and not being like lockdown. I also know that like when I got into really doubling down on speaking, I also knew that I didn't want to like be on the road 300 days a year. It's like I would love to give like two to four keynotes a month and get a decent amount for each of those and be able to like the rest of the time. I mean. Cause it's like I have my podcast and I run a networking event in Portland called the Energy Exchange. And I'm also a director of experiences for the Lesbian Culture Club, which is more kind of like a side hustle, you know, side project that I do with my friend. So I.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:25

It's like I love being involved in the community. I love going for hikes with my dogs, I love going for coffee with friends. Just being able to like, when I am home, being able to like enjoy my life. I feel like my energy is very much like, I'm an airman Aries. I'm a fire starter. I have that like, I like to like light people's fire, but not necessarily like hold their hand.

Emily Walker [: 00:14:50

I love that.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:51

Yeah, that's like, that's.

Emily Walker [: 00:14:52

I'll light the fire and then I want to be like finding that and.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:56

Like you got it. And, and you know, I mean there is a part of me that misses that kind of like that ongoing seeing that growth over time because it's like, you know, you go give a talk and it's like, peace. I'm out. So I have been trying to figure out, well, what, what else could I offer that's still like again, feels fun for me and not coming from a place of like, oh, I should do this.

Emily Walker [: 00:15:17

I love all of this. And so I'm just going to like verbalize my thought process for everyone listening. So you kind of know like, what am I listening for? What patterns am I going for? Because when I'm kind of like working with someone to be like, hey, let's figure out what is your offer ecosystem need to look like? I kind of, I start with like, what's the life you want to live? So I can get kind of a general sense of parameters because my personal belief is that all offer models are inherently neutral. I know there's a lot of people out there that are like, you need to have a membership or like you need to have a group program or what? You don't need anything you can have. I have clients that have really successful businesses with just either like one to one coaching or a book or like one offer. I have clients that have really complex offer ecosystems and somewhere in between it's really about finding that balance of like, what are the parameters you need in your life and then coming around to, and this is where we're going to head next of like the people that you serve and the transformation they're looking for and the, the level of work they're looking for and what they're comfortable investing. And those are kind of like some of the levers that we pull. So based off of what you've already shared by saying like, you know, the freedom and the spaciousness and the flexibility and wanting to be able to do what you want when you want, that tells me it's like we're not doing any long term containers.

Emily Walker [: 00:16:31

We're not like, I would not recommend a membership to you where you're like locked into like, oh, now I have to show up every single month for these people or a 12 month container or something like that. I also can hear that there's like there's that community, that connection that like, you want to be connected to your people. So I would say based off of that, if you did have anything self study in your offer ecosystem, whether it's like a tiny offer or like a digital course, it would only be like one part of it. It would be like a little like snack on the side. It wouldn't be your meat and potatoes. Because I think that you need that, like, access to your people. And so I'm gonna ask more questions. So I've kind of like got some things percolating here, but like, those are kind of like the initial things that like, kind of ping for me.

Emily Walker [: 00:17:13

How does that resonate for you?

Marli Williams [: 00:17:15

A lot of that definitely resonates. And like, I've done the long term containers, which have felt really kind of daunting and overwhelming or like, you know, it's just again, a lot of pressure to like, deliver on this thing. And yet, like, I think that there, there is a part of me that has a curiosity around something ongoing, whether that's like a membership or a touch point that feels like. But it's just trying to find like, what feels like fun and juicy and lit up and not like locked in. I will say it's like, I'm pretty when I coach, when I teach, when I train, when I facilitate. It's like very like, intuitive. I'm a, my human design is I'm a generator. And so it's like your generator's job is to respond versus, like, the thought of like creating an online course or something like that.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:05

And like, speaking into a camera feels like the worst thing ever to me. But like, getting on a group call, like, I've done it a hundred times where it's like, I don't have an agenda necessarily other than like, we're here to like, lift each other up, to move things forward. Like, I'm a very, like, I love inspiring people to take action of like, getting unstuck, you know, like, I've had a mantra like, helping people go from stuck to stoked or like, and how do I create an ecosystem where that, again, that feels fun and aligned but not like, locked in. And that's where I think I sometimes, like, it feels sticky. So, yes, that's what came up for me.

Emily Walker [: 00:18:46

Okay, I have so many thoughts, but I want to ask more questions before I share my thoughts.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:49

I love this.

Emily Walker [: 00:18:50

Like, oh, I got so many now. I want to hear a bit about the people that you serve. Like, tell me a bit about, you know, like, when you picture like a Client that you're like, if I could times you buy a hundred thousand people and you were the person that I'd work with, like, in and out constantly. I love you. You're amazing. Talk to me a bit about like, who that person is, where they are in life, strengths, personality, like, paint me a word picture.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:15

It's really interesting because, like, I haven't worked one on one with folks in a while or like, and I'm thinking about like my retreats, keynote speaking feels a little bit different. I'm speaking to like a room full of people. It's like my client is the company, but then like the audience is there listening. That feels a little bit different. But I will, I would say, like in general, when I think about whether it's an audience member, someone at my retreat, it's like growth oriented feels like the number one thing. It's like people that are here to learn, people that are here to grow, people that want, want that and are open to it. The desire to learn, the desire to take action. Like, action oriented.

Marli Williams [: 00:19:59

They're coachable, they're motivated, driven, excited. Like, they're like, let's freaking go. Like, let's do this. They're ready to make some sort of change in their life. Like, it's like they've done enough work. It's like people that are already, you know, I think, like, invested in their personal growth. Those are the some things that come to my mind.

Emily Walker [: 00:20:21

What sort of context are they in? Like, you know, is it like when you're saying, like, they're kind of feeling stuck and they want to be stoked, Are they like, like, I hate this language, like pain points, but just kind of like, look, what's, what's feeling sticky in their life? Like, what's, what's going on that they're like, ooh, like, I, I'm ready, I'm ready to change, I'm motivated. But like, for some reason they're not. So what's happening?

Marli Williams [: 00:20:43

I'm thinking about the energy exchange experience, like this networking event that I've, I created. And I would say like most of the people in that room are like, they're entrepreneurs, they're healers, they're coaches, they're service based, they're wanting to share their gifts with the world. And there's something in the way. Like, it might be the fear of being seen. The like, self doubt. Can I really do this? Do I have what it takes? It's kind of like if I were to feel like, you know, it's like, well, how do you help people? Or. I think about. It's like, I.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:16

I help people believe in themselves. It's like giving people this. Like, I see you. I feel you. I hear you. You have, like, magic and medicine and something to offer to this world. And it's funny. And then I'm like, and I don't want to be a business coach, right? It's kind of like, it's not about me.

Marli Williams [: 00:21:33

Like, here's how to, like, get an LLC or, like, here's how to get clients, or here's how to make money. It's just like, if you believed in yourself, what would you do, right? Like, in this, like, who would you be? And. And almost like. And how do you. I think that's why I love that initial question. It's like, what's the life that you want to have? And what's the impact that you're here to make? And, like, giving people this, like, I don't know if it's like, pep talk, boost, motivation, inspiration, energy.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:03

Like, this, like, LFG energy. Like, let's fucking go. Let's do the thing. Let's take imperfect action. Let's put it out there. Let's. Like. I think that that's my favorite is one of the offers that I've had in the past.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:18

I called the retreat retreat, where people came on retreat with me to learn how to lead and run and facilitate their own retreat. And the best thing in the world to me is, like, you know, my friends Brittany and Lisette just got back from leading their, like, third or fourth retreat, and, like, she came on the retreat. Both of them have been on the retreat retreat, and it's like seeing, like, the ripple effect of that and, like, their work and just saying, like, I see you, and, like, you have this calling on your heart, and you're like, like, being the person to help catalyze that into action and seeing how that's impacted their life and the lives of the people that have come on their retreat. And yet, like, filling that retreat was really hard, like, in my head, like, it's like getting people to get it. Getting people to come. Getting people to invest, you know? So I don't know. I just, like, went in, like, a lot of different directions.

Emily Walker [: 00:23:16

But no, I love.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:17

I mean, Brittany and Liza, like, I mean, I would say they're my two best friends, but they were also, like, my favorite people to work with, because they're just like, I'm here for it. I know I'm meant for this. I just need your. Your, like, some Coaching, support, guidance to like help me bring this thing to life. But I'm not going to like hold your hand. I'm not going to do it for you. It's just like I'm going to see you and help like believe in you until you believe in ear. Like it's like, you know,

Emily Walker [: 00:23:43

So I'm just like starting to parse out like the different like threads of your work. And so definitely there's like, you know, this piece around like self belief and like really like them seeing themselves the way that you see them. And then it sounds like with the retreat, retreat there, there's some technical skills there, some facilitation, some structuring. Is that kind of what you get into in the retreat retreat?

Marli Williams [: 00:24:03

Yeah. So it's both of like the logistics and like it's like, here's a retreat budget and here's how to pick a venue. But it's also like, how do you hold space? How do you facilitate transformation? I ran a course called the Epic Facilitator Academy where it was really about like that, like the facilitation skills. I've run my own. I, I did a retreat called Hell yeah. So it was really about helping women craft and create like, what is your Hell Yes Life? What does it look like? What does it sound like, what does it feel like? And, and I created this like, like created a planner around it. So it's like I've done all of these different things and then it's just like, yeah, what's the thing?

Emily Walker [: 00:24:40

So when you're like, when you're talking with your people, whether you're thinking about them like your friends or like, you know, in the past, when you've like done the coaching or done the containers, like what's the, the gap like? You know, because sometimes there's no gap and sometimes the gap is big between what people think they need and what you know they need. Like when you're, you're, because you kind of said you're like, I'm not getting into the business coaching side of things. And I'm wondering if that's because you're kind of like, that's not really necessary. When you, when you get, when you get locked into this magic, when you get into this, like, hell yes. This, like, oh my gosh, I'm seen, I'm amazing. I need to get my medicine out there in the world. Like that's what really can build the momentum when, when you're engaging with people in your world. What's, what's that like what's that gap? Like do you find yourself having to do a lot of like, let's shift some perspective or go digging or like, tell me a bit about that.

Marli Williams [: 00:25:25

When it was about like, I think the retreat stuff and the facilitation stuff, I think that what people want is how do I fill my retreat? Like, how do I sell it, how do I market it, how do I make money, the business side of it versus looking for how do I hold space and how do I facilitate growth and transformation? And so yeah, like, that's like the what do, what do they want versus what do they need? And like, what's your vision and who is this for? And like, you know, what's the transformation you want to create for them? And but it's like, well, what if nobody signs up? And like, you know, same with like facilitation of like creating a workshop. It was like, well, how do I fill the room? And that feels like that's like the marketing, that's the sales, that's like, what do you call it? And like who's your audience and who's your avatar? And like all these things. I'm just like,

Emily Walker [: 00:26:14

This is like a side thread. But sometimes what can happen is even in our own messaging, our own marketing, our own awareness, we're actually speaking to a client archetype that's a little early in their journey. Because even like I'm thinking, you know, because I also support people with like facilitation and when I'm talking with my clients around retreat structuring and things, I feel like once people get to a certain level of experience in their business, they're like, I know I can sell stuff. They're like, I'm going to, I'm going to sell it. I'm not worried about it. But like, I am starting to kind of like doubt my facilitation skills or I'm starting to question that. And so sometimes this, when we're designing any offer, it can be really helpful to lock in on the like, am I speaking to the person who is like, I've got this on lock, but I need this, this support. And sometimes it's the offer's journey is to bridge that shift of like, well, you think you need this, but actually you need this.

Emily Walker [: 00:27:04

And other times it's our like pre offer journey, our messaging, our marketing to be like even literally saying things like, you know, you can fill that retreat, but inside you're kind of scared of filling it because you're like, can I hold the space for Those people and being able to, like, make that little shift, that was like a. Like a side. A side tangent from what we were talking about. And I wanted to, like, pancakes dropping in.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:24

For me, an interesting perspective, right? To look at who. At what level, who am I speaking to? Not just like, oh, I just started my business and I want to run a retreat. It's like, oh, I've been leading online communities for a long time. I know I can fill it, but I haven't ever led a retreat before, potentially. But it's like, they know that, like, if they put it out there, it would sell. And then, like, but can I? Do I know how to actually guide people, lead people through that experience?

Emily Walker [: 00:27:56

Running a retreat is not the same as running an online program. And for some reason, so many people think it is. They're like, I can hold space for a group. And you're, like, so different.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:05

It's so different. Yeah, like, energy and group dynamics and helping people connect and facilitating community and, like, all these, like, little pieces that I think get. Get missed along the way. So that's. Yeah, it's an interesting, like, perspective to look at that. That piece of the puzzle. And. And even people have reached out to me for, like, speaker coaching, for example.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:26

Right. But, like, most people, when they reach out, like, on Instagram or Facebook, they're like, oh, my God, Marli, you're crushing it. How are you booking all of these talks? So, like, people want to know. And, like, that's why it's like, grant Ball win program. It's like, get booked and paid to speak. Because it's like, that is hitting such, like, a pain point for people. Like, I want to be able to speak up. You know, do you want to get paid to give a keynote? You know, get paid $10,000 to get on stage for an hour? Like, I'll teach you how in the next 60 minutes.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:54

You know, I would love to help people with public speak. Like, it's like, stage presence and tone and voice and ideas and messages. You know, it's like, all of that, like, that's juicy to me. But, like, I also. I'm like, I don't want to do the how to get booked and paid to speak and, like, go join his program. Like, that's what they peach. Like, you know?

Emily Walker [: 00:29:14

Yeah. And I think that's a huge thing to know, is that I think often, you know, people are like, what is it? Like, the big three in marketing, where it's like, helping people make money, helping people have better sex, and helping people lose weight and they're like those are the things they always are going to sell. And it's a little bit like junk food. Like it's tastes great but there's not a lot of substance there. And like there are, and there are amazing marketing coaches, there's amazing sex coaches, there's amazing weight loss coaches. Like they're, they're all great. But sometimes we can feel the pressure to like pull ourselves and pull our offers to be like, well I have to touch on this and, and I know this was something I struggled a lot with my, in my beginning of my journey because you know there was a lot of these big name people out there that were like the six figure course, the seven figure course, the multimillion dollar course. I'm going to help you make bank and I built my entire business without making a single income claim from my income or my clients income.

Emily Walker [: 00:30:07

And I built it by saying I'm going to help you build a course that's going to deliver transformation. I'm going to help you architect transformation. And our people are out there and our job is very much to draw the scope. And I love, I love what you said when you're like that feels juicy for me like cultivating stage presence, helping people be a better speaker. Because one, I'm just a firm believer that when you have that the bookings are going to come because you're going to be magnetic. And it's not like the strategy of, you know, often I find people really mystify sales and they're like what's the secret? The secret is to say you have something that solves the problem and then accept money for it. That's sales. It doesn't need to be that as complicated as people like, like to see.

Emily Walker [: 00:30:49

But I, I think what we can do when we're looking at your offers and, and for everyone listening when you're thinking about your offers is, is not feeling like you have to, to be pulled into those big categories of like if you're a biz, if you're remotely touching business in any way that you have to teach people sales and how to make money, your job then will become in your marketing, your messaging is to educate people as to why you're not doing that and to explain, you know, like so for me like something I stand on is that when you have an offer that speaks to your people, that speaks to their desires and their wants and solves a problem for them, but actually solves the problem like it's architected to get them results like, they're going to finish the course, they're going to tell all their friends, they're going to tell everyone they know. They're going to shout about you from the rooftops because you've solved a problem for them. So it may feel like the slow magic, it may feel like the slow sustainable way and it might not be as like, sexy as like make a million dollars in 24 hours, you know, but it is still effective. And so what we can do here when we're playing around with your offers is like, for me the biggest priority is that it feels juicy and exciting for you. It feels like a container that you're like, yeah, let me get people in there. It feels like a promise that, you know, you can deliver on. And then we can also make sure it's anchored in something that your people are looking for. So you can guarantee people are looking for facilitation skills.

Emily Walker [: 00:32:13

They're looking for how, how to hold space. They're looking for how to cultivate stage presence. And they might not be using those words, but they are. They are looking to be fully seen and to believe in themselves and to be anchored into it. So our job now is to play with the levers of like, what feels fun and exciting to lead with and then what container are we wrapping around that so we can get into that next? But I know I just talked for like a while, so I want to hear your thoughts.

Marli Williams [: 00:32:37

Yeah, I think it's like letting go of that story of like, well, it has to be, you know, it's like, oh, in order for people to invest, it has to like, meet this, like, oh, well, I'm going to help you book a six figure, you know, a five figure talk. Or I'm going to, you know, it's like get booked and paid to speak or like fill your retreat, sell out, you know, sold out retreats. Like, these are all of the things that I see people like selling and filling and marketing. And you know, I think there is a story of like, well, all of these other people have these programs and like, maybe, you know, they're probably better than mine anyway. So like, I'd rather just say like, go sign up for that. So it's like, what's the unique thing that I have that I believe in, that people know that they want or know that they need? Who's the who? Like, when I think about like, who's in that room and what are the conversations we're having and like, what is that transformation? And that's like, yeah, trying to figure out what that. What that looks like?

Emily Walker [: 00:33:36

Like, what would feel ridiculously fun? Like, what would feel like, oh my God, I can't believe someone's paying me money to do this. Like, to support them. Like, out of all the things we've talked about, the, you know, the retreat, like, maybe not retreat retreat, but like around retreat topics, around speaking, coaching around that. More like mindset and self anchoring coaching. Like in those realms, like, what feels the most alive for you? And what would feel like. Like that'd be, like, that would be dumb if someone would pay me like a bucket load of money to support them with this.

Marli Williams [: 00:34:05

I've thought about this around, like, bringing a group of like, women keynote speakers to a beautiful place and just like, if everyone walked away feeling like connected to their message and their talk and their ideas and like, we just got to like jam and riff and play and practice and workshop and, you know, but like, almost like co create it where it's like, yes, like, I'm here, like holding the space and creating the experience, but that, you know, there's all of, you know, it's like I'm in a speaker mastermind right now. I think I had mentioned it at the last bootcamp because it was like, wow, like, all of this information is great. There's so much content here, but I just need to sit down and fucking write my talk and like, get insight and get input and get feedback and have. It's like the spaciousness and like, yeah, like the space and the time and the energy and the perspective and the feedback and like bouncing ideas off of each other and hearing and learning and like, yeah. So I don't know. That's been. That's just off the. Off the cuff something that I think could be really fun and valuable for people. I think.

Emily Walker [: 00:35:27

Yeah, that sounds freaking amazing. I hope someone listening to this episode is like, I'm in,

Marli Williams [: 00:35:32

I'm in.

Emily Walker [: 00:35:33

Sign me up,

Marli Williams [: 00:35:33

Sign me up,

Emily Walker [: 00:35:34

Let's freaking go.

Emily Walker [: 00:35:36

Because. And this is so interesting because when you were talking about kind of the life that you want to live and the freedom and spaciousness you want to have, but still having that like, connection to. To community and belonging to your people. Like, the idea that popped in for me, I was like, because you're already doing retreats and it's such a gift that you have. I love the idea of maybe marrying like, either retreats or like in person immersives with like a fixed space virtual container afterwards. It's not like 12 months. I think that's too long. But I'm thinking Like three to six months.

Emily Walker [: 00:36:05

So you, because when you said you're like, I want to that growth over time, but I think there's like a certain point where you're like, I want to see it and then I want to be done. So I was like, oh, like, I feel like something like this. Like you said, you bring a group of women together, you. You're kicking off with an in person experience, which is always so beautiful for bringing that cohort together, bringing that community together. And it's like, okay, we're using that space to like tap into the vision, tap into the message and start being like, what does this, what does your signature talk look like? And then maybe practicing it, because depending on how many days the retreat is, but then if there was this like asynchronous or synchronous virtual container afterwards and you and I can talk about like, does that include any one to ones or is it just like a small group or something where not only have they, they get to carry this community on, but there's that accountability, there's that, you know, they actually just get the shit done. Like, okay, take all that energy from the retreat now. Start. Start going out and doing things and sharing this with the world.

Emily Walker [: 00:36:59

I mean, I think that'd be insanely valuable. I can like already think of like clients that I've worked with that would be looking for something just like that. Because I think there's a lot of people who are like, I want to start speaking, I want to be out there on stages. And ultimately I think when they're like, oh, how do I book the talks? It's like, if you are wildly delusionally obsessed with your message and embodied in your message, it becomes 5,000 times easier to like reach out to an organization and be like, I'm amazing. But more importantly, I have something that can help your people and it's insanely valuable. And then they're like, okay, great, you're booked. And I think you have such this wealth of experience that you don't need to be saying, like, you're going to get booked and you're going to book all these things. You know, if you needed to, you could bring in a guest expert who specializes in that.

Emily Walker [: 00:37:45

But your secret sauce is like bringing out that soul message and helping them like get their garbage out of the way so they can actually like share it. So like, I love this idea of like starting with a retreat where you have that community, you have that in person touch point that really like fuels your fire and then extending it a Little bit to. So that you can get that satisfaction. You can have that generator response of questions. But then, like, at a certain point, it's like, hey, bye. I'm off for summer vacation, or whatever it is.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:18

Totally. Yeah. Whereas, like, there's enough, you know, time and space to integrate that, but also not so long that it feels like it just, like, fades out that energy and that momentum and, like, lighting that spark for people and giving. Yeah. Getting people going, so to speak. Because it's like, it's not a one, you know, and it's interesting because I'm like, well, I'm in this really great program, so if someone wanted to learn how to be a speaker, like, right now I'm just like, well, join this program. I'm in. It's really great.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:45

Versus, like, well, what's, you know, I think is, like, trying to flesh out, well, what is that magic? Or, like. And I think that we all struggle with that comparison. The compare and despair of, like, well, somebody else has already done it. Somebody else has already created it. Who am I? I'm still trying to find my message because, like, but it's like. That's the whole point. Like, we all are. And it's like.

Marli Williams [: 00:39:06

It's iterative and. But, like, who you are and how you share it. Like, it's like, yeah, finding what's the unique perspective, experience, energy that I bring. That's different even than, like, what the program that I'm in or, like, the. Or taking all the things that I've learned and kind of, like, there is an element of, like, all of these pieces of, like, facilitation and speaking and workshops and keynotes and, you know, like, really, like, leading groups. How do you, you know. Yeah. Hold.

Marli Williams [: 00:39:42

Hold space on a stage with a thousand people and, like, on a retreat with 10 people and energetically, like, you know, there's. And there's, like, regulating your nervous system and grounding your energy and also, like, sharing your message and also, like, understanding group dynamic. It's like, so there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle before you put.

Emily Walker [: 00:40:03

A ton of pressure on yourself to, like, you know, what's the next offer? I mean, I mean, honestly, I think you could, like, rock and roll with that offer that we just talked about. I think that sounds amazing, but I also think. I think you can feel somewhere in you that obviously you have such a unique magic from these other offers. Because I think if I was like, yep, you right, Marli, shut down your business. Someone else is already doing it. You're done. Retire, like, Go find another job. You would be like, no, I'm not doing that.

Emily Walker [: 00:40:29

Like, there is a difference. But I think this is where taking the time to surface your framework, I think would be so powerful because I think when we can actually visualize the threads of our work and we can say, like you said, you're like, there's this and there's that and there's this and there's that. And so right now it feels like this, like kind of tangled threads of various bits of magic, but it feels a bit intangible opposed to saying like, oh, this is what I do and there's, you know, five components of it. And so in, you know, this keynote I talk about this piece and in this keynote I actually talk about all five of them. And in this retreat I'm focusing on one pillar. And in this retreat I'm talking about three of them. And being able to articulate this is it, like, this is the building block of my body of work. It literally, you know, framework, it's, it's the framing that holds everything.

Emily Walker [: 00:41:19

And when we don't have that, it can feel kind of like just like intuitive, you know, it's wobbly and it's an intuitive opposed to like structured. And when. And then we don't feel as held as we can. And I think that's where the wobble comes from for like, well, someone else is already doing it. Like, maybe they're better. And I'm like, if you are not obsessed with yourself and your offers, why would your people be right? Like, and I think that's where it's like, we want to get to that point of you being like, hell freaking yes, you should sign up for this. It is a no brainer. I should triple the price.

Emily Walker [: 00:41:54

This is how great it is.

Marli Williams [: 00:41:56

And I think that's such a good point of like, you know, for everybody out there listening too, to like, it's so easy to get stuck in that place of like, what should I create? Or what do people want? Versus like create the offer that like, totally lights you up, that you like, that you are obsessed about, that you can't stop talking about, that you believe in. And like, and I really do agree about this, this idea of like the framework really being able to hold you and hold your ideas and, and communicate the value. Because sometimes I just want to be like, trust me, it'll be great, you know, like, come on retreat with me, your life will be changed. And then people are like, well, what are we going to do and how is it going to Be changed and like, oh, I don't know. Like, what does that mean without it? I think making offers feels really. Can feel really hard.

Emily Walker [: 00:42:43

Yeah, it definitely can, because it we. When you don't have that framing that's, like, anchoring you and your uniqueness in a way that's very, like, tangible and structured, I think then we're so much more, like, susceptible to other people's BS because we're like, well, so and so's doing it this way, or so and so's doing it this way. Or even, like, you know, our people are like, okay, but, like, what am I going to do? Because, like, I think about, like, the first year because I run retreats in the south of France, and because for me, I'm like, come hang out with me in a villa. Let's eat cheese, drink champagne, and we'll sort out your business. And I'm like, what more do you need to know? A lot. People needed to know a lot more. They wanted a lot more specifics. But in the beginning, I was like, trust the vibe.

Emily Walker [: 00:43:24

It's gonna be great.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:25

Totally. I'm just like, trust the vibe. Just come hang out with me. I'll change your life.

Emily Walker [: 00:43:29

It'll be great. And it's so hard. And then, especially when, like, we're not messaging experts, we're like, okay, like, how do I articulate this? But I find once you have the framework and the way I teach frameworks is always to move from the conceptual to the practical. Like, from the conceptual to the tangible actions, the tangible skills that we're cultivating in people. So then you're like, not only are like, here are the pillars of my work, but here are the actual skills I help people cultivate. And then all of a sudden, every single offer you want to create or sell or market, you're like, oh, well, I help you go from this to this. I help you cultivate this skill. I help you get this outcome.

Emily Walker [: 00:44:03

And it becomes so precise, it makes everything a lot easier. So then you can be like, it's going to be vibey and amazing, and also you're going to walk away with your, you know, core signature talk crafted and be deeply embodied in your message. And you'll have, like, be able to cultivate stage presence in and in and in. You know, you're. You have that tangibility which makes such a difference.

Marli Williams [: 00:44:25

And realizing people need that, like, when people are investing a lot of money in their. In their growth or in the transformation, it's kind of like, I just want them to get it. You know, and it's like, but I need to get it and I need to be, you know, again, like, it's like we want people to believe in us and our offers, and yet, like, do we. Is it embodied? Is it clear? Is it like, is it grounded in who we are? And like, that knowing and that trusting in ourselves? Because then that ripples out into, like, the website, the sales page, the marketing, the calls, the emails, whatever it is, however we're communicating that. And if we're wobbly, people feel it. And sometimes there's like, I don't know what you're gonna. You know, people always say, well, what am I gonna get? I'm like, I don't know what you're gonna get, but I know you're gonna get what you need. And it's like, that is a hard sales pitch because, like, I want you to, like, you know, it's like they're trusting you as the.

Marli Williams [: 00:45:20

As the guide, as the mentor, as the educator, as the trainer, as the teacher, whatever. Yeah. Being able to articulate that and to yourself and to your people.

Emily Walker [: 00:45:31

We have to go first.

Marli Williams [: 00:45:32

Yes. You know, as we bring things home, what would you say, like, for me or like, anybody listening, it's like, we've. You've asked some really good questions that I think anyone who's working on an offer can ask themselves. What would be, like, the next step that I would take on this path or anybody listening would take as they're thinking about how do I craft this, like, really juicy aligned offer for myself, for my people, for my business?

Emily Walker [: 00:46:00

Yeah. Okay, so I'll kind of give two different scenarios, because I would say for you, based on everything we've talked about, I definitely think spending some time crafting your signature framework, I think is going to go far for this kind of like, for lack of better word, like, mushiness that's happening, where you're like, I can't. I can't quite articulate what it is. Like, I know it's amazing. I know it's life changing. I've got the receipts to prove it. Like, you're changing people's lives. You're getting them receipts, results.

Emily Walker [: 00:46:25

It's just being able to articulate that. And so I think taking some time to map out your framework, I've got resources for that. So I think it's like getting that framework down, I think is going to make all the other parts of the ecosystem so much easier because then you can kind of know what. What are you supporting people with and what feels nice for scope because whenever we're designing offers it's like that balance of what do we want, like what feels juicy for us, what life do we want to live, what sort of containers do we love facilitating? And also like what do our people need and what can they sustain? Because I always say like, you know, the more self study an offer gets, the smaller the transformational scope needs to be. Doesn't mean you can't have a bunch of offers that like stack after each other. But you know, the more in person or live contact, the longer, the deeper the transformation can be. Those are kind of like the levers that we're pulling that when you have your framework, you can really start to see like, oh, like this one thing actually is so complex it needs to be its own offer. Like I can't wrap other things in with it versus like oh, this is a one to one coaching.

Emily Walker [: 00:47:31

I can do it all because I've got lots of touch points. So I, I would say for, for you and for anyone who's listening, that's like, oh, I've got like a lot of threads of brilliance, I've got like a lot of areas that I can kind of support people with. Start with your framework because your framework holds everything for people who are listening that you're like, I've got a signature framework or like I'm feeling pretty clear on that and I just want to know like, okay, now where do I go with my one specific offer? I'm feeling really good about that. I always say we want to take an action focused lens to designing offers. So we want to get crystal clear on what is the transformation we're providing as part of that offer. Like what's the scope, what are we leading them to, what are they going to walk away with and what are the actions they need to take to get there. Not what do they need to know. Because a lot of people are tempted to like just dump out all their knowledge, all their information, all the concepts, all the themes.

Emily Walker [: 00:48:20

You know, this is something I see a lot with like chat, GPT designed courses and things as people are like, it just spits out content. But transformation doesn't come from information. Transformation comes from implementation and reflection. And so what we want to do, our job is with any offer is to go, what actions do our people need to take? So if you're, you know, you've got your framework, you have a clear idea of the life you want to live and now you're thinking about like what, how do I actually design this offer? We want to look at the Skills and abilities that we're supporting, the actions that people need to take to move towards that transformation that we've laid out for them. And then you can layer on the content and stuff after that. But like skills and actions first.

Marli Williams [: 00:49:04

I love that so much. I, you're speaking my language. I'm like, information without application does not equal transformation.

Emily Walker [: 00:49:12

Does not. It's not the equation we're looking for.

Marli Williams [: 00:49:14

Not the equation, right. And I love that like what are the actions that someone would need to take to get them that result? And really like have it be, you know, an, an action oriented like program, course offer. It's like what do they need to do? What skill. You know, the actions and the skills that they need to build and develop and cultivate. And then it's like the information will fill in the gaps, you know, in a way. So I think that that's gold. So as people go out there into the world creating their epic offers, what final words of wisdom or advice would you give them after, you know, working with your, with so many incredible people, helping them bring their brilliance into the world? And then if someone does want to like learn more about you, find some resources, like get to know you more, where can people find you and your work?

Emily Walker [: 00:50:00

Letting it be fun, it should be fun for you. And if it's not feeling fun, then something needs to change. And that doesn't mean there's not going to be parts that are sloggy. Like, especially if you're creating like a self study course, there's always a part. Like I tell all my clients, I'm just like, just plan in a breakdown, there's always at least one because like, you know, tech and recording and editing and like there's but the actual delivery of it should be fun. And so don't feel like you have to squish yourself into someone else's box of acceptability of like someone telling you this is what a course should. Like, this is. This is what a group program should look like.

Emily Walker [: 00:50:35

This is what a membership should look like. Like, we don't want should's, we want fun. We want you in all of your units. So like I just always want people to be coming back to like who wouldn't it be ridiculous if like wouldn't it be wild if, like wouldn't it be so fun if. And the answer is like yes. Yes you should do that. Like always coming back to the, you know, if you're, if you're getting that nudge, if you're getting that pull, if you're feeling like, you're like, oh, like I don't know if I'm allowed to do it this way or like, is that okay? Yes, you can do it that way. So that, that's what I always come back to is like the advice for people.

Marli Williams [: 00:51:08

I love that so much. And like I always say if we're not having fun, we're doing it wrong. You know, when it comes to building our own businesses, it's like, you know, starting with what do I want my life to look like and sound like and feel like? And you know, wouldn't it be crazy if someone paid me for, for this? And like, what a fun, like playground to play in. Like, you know, what would you want to create that sounds like the most fun, awesome, epic thing that you could. And like starting from that place again versus like, well, what do people want? What are people going to pay for and what does the market need? That is just such a fun place to come from, right? That playful energy and spirit of like, what is the craziest thing that I could create? That sounds fun for me because it's like our energy is everything when we are inviting people into our world, into our offers, into our space, into a retreat, a program, whatever it is. It's like people feel that. People feel your energy and if it's coming from a place of should and have to, it's not probably going to feel fun, feel good to you, or feel exciting for your people to lean in and say yes. So I love that, love that advice.

Emily Walker [: 00:52:22

For people who want to get in touch. I hang out over on Instagram, I'm @emily.mwalker or you can find me at my website emilymwalker.com I've got a ton of free resources on there. I've got a couple of free video series about how to get started in creating your offers. I've got some master classes, I've got years worth of blog posts, I've got a lot of stuff on there for anyone who's looking to craft that gorgeous, scalable, transformative body of work. And I'm always happy to get DMs, get messages. So if you're listening to this and you have follow up questions or you want to chat, just feel free to reach out because I just nerd out about this stuff. It's my favorite.

Marli Williams [: 00:52:59

Well, you are brilliant in sharing your, your heart, your knowledge, your energy, your wisdom with all of us today, as you know. Thanks for coaching me and really like unpacking and some of the, some of the things that, that maybe I haven't even thought about or articulated. And I think that that's the power of. Of working with someone like you, you know, one on one, having a coach, having a guide, having a mentor, being able to, like, help us see our own brilliance. I think that, like I said that before, it's like, that was one of the hardest things about being an entrepreneur and working for yourself is like, how do I see it? How do I communicate it? And to have someone like you really help, help, help see that, that gift and be able to put it into a framework and a body of work and like all these things so that you can share it with the world in a way that feels again, like sustainable, scalable, fun, energizing. And that helps you, like, live and create the life that you really want. So thank you for being here today and sharing your magic with all of us today. And like Emily said, if I.

Marli Williams [: 00:54:06

I always love hearing your thoughts, insights, takeaways, golden nuggets, insights, reflections. If you felt like someone in your life could benefit from listening, feel free to share it with them. And thank you, Emily, so much for being with us today. Appreciate you.

Emily Walker [: 00:54:19

Thanks so much for having me. This was great. Such a good conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:54:22

Yeah. All right, everybody, until next time, take care. Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams Podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off.

Marli Williams [: 00:55:05

See you next week.