The Power of Intentional Habits and Self-Care for Leaders -08

We feel it is important to make our podcast transcripts available for accessibility. We use quality artificial intelligence tools to make it possible for us to provide this resource to our audience. We do have human eyes reviewing this, but they will rarely be 100% accurate. We appreciate your patience with the occasional errors you will find in our transcriptions. If you find an error in our transcription, or if you would like to use a quote, or verify what was said, please feel free to reach out to us at connect@37by27.com.

Marli Williams [: 00:00:00

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Marli Williams podcast, where today I will be interviewing the brilliantly talented Dr. Tamsin Astor. She is an author, a speaker, and the chief habit scientist for your life. Her mission in the world is to help busy people organize themselves so that they have the time for what they want and need and most importantly, time for fun. Together, we are going to dive deep into how our habits impact us as leaders so that we can be fully resourced to make the impact that we are here to make. I cannot wait to dive into this amazing conversation. Let's go.

Marli Williams [: 00:00:47

Hey, everyone. What's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams podcast where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator, and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation, and impact. Let's Lead Together. The Marli Williams podcast begins now. Let's dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:29

Hey, everybody. I would love to welcome you back to the Marli Williams podcast where today I get to hang out with my amazing friend, Tamsin, who is an incredible speaker, mentor, coach, all about helping you change your habits so that you can change your life. So, I just want to welcome you to the show. Thanks for being here.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:01:49

Oh, I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me, Marli. I'm excited about our conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:54

Me too. Yeah. I met Tamsin way back in the day when I first left my full-time job to go out on my own as a coach, and we were a part of the same mastermind. And that's one of the beautiful things about, you know, group programs like that are what you learn, but so much of, like, who you get to meet.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:02:16

The people.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:18

It's all about the people. It’s been amazing to see you on your journey and, like, stepping out into the speaking world and the coaching space, and you've written a book. So, for people that are listening, I would love for you to just share what it is that you do in the world and how you help people and a little bit of how you got there, and then we'll kick things off.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:02:39

Sounds cheesy. Alright. Well, my name is Dr. Tamsin Astor, and I am the chief habit scientist. I help people connect their daily habits to their big, juicy life and business vision. As a speaker, trainer, facilitator, what I really help is I help people cultivate success habits in their organizations so that organizations retain their employees and their employees feel recognized, experience joy and have a sense of real psychosocial safety. So, they want to be in the organization. They feel valued and seen.

Marli Williams [: 00:03:14

I love that. That is something that I feel like the world needs. I believe that we all have the desire to be heard, seen, and loved. And when you create a team, a company, an organization where people feel valued, their humanity, they're going to show up, get the job done, do a better job when they feel supported in this holistic way, right, of, like, we are whole people that have you know, we go to work, we have jobs, but we have lives. And to affirm that, to support that, to acknowledge that as a leader within your organization, like, thank you for doing the work that you do. So, so important. So, how did you even get into this?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:04:09

So, my journey started with leaving academia because I had this point in academia where I started to feel like there was a scarcity energy around fighting for funding, the kind of politics in the departments and the sort of the, like, the little fiefdoms that I was like, fuck that energy. I don't want to be in that. And then also the energy of, oh, no. No. You want to be doing research, teaching. Like, you want to buy out your teaching. Like, if you're a really good researcher, you know, you'll have a really low course load. And I was like, but teaching and engaging the next generation and facilitating conversations and getting people to think is so exciting and not the crappy end of academia. So, I left academia because I was like, that is not my energy. And then I was like, well, now what the fuck am I going to do?

Marli Williams [: 00:04:55

Yeah. I can still relate to that because we were both in higher ed. I was on, like, the student affairs side. As you get higher up within the context of the university, I started to get further and further away from the work that I love to do with students and, like, that directly supporting them. It was, like, policy, procedures, and systems, and all that stuff. And I was like, not my jam. So, yeah, it's kind of like, now what? Right?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:05:24

Right. So, now what? So, I became a yoga teacher because I was like, oh, what's kept me sane being the parent, working parent of 2 little boys? Yoga. So, it's like I become a yoga teacher. Quickly realized that I didn't want to just do the lululemon yummy mommy crowd, and so I then got trained to work with using yoga meditation as a tool. So, I worked with therapists. I worked with teenage girls. I worked with children on the autistic spectrum, and with ADHD. So, how could I use yoga and meditation in spaces where it wasn't traditionally used, right? So, going into underserved communities.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:05:56

re. It's been around for over: 6000

Tamsin Astor [: 00:07:02

I started implementing the practices in a Deepak Chopra book of all books, and my symptoms went away. And what was fascinating to me was I realized in the western model, healthy means absence of disease. But in the eastern model, healthy means are you seated in the self? Completely different concept of what it means to be a healthy human. Right? So that led me on my journey. I was like, oh, this shit's amazing. So, I've got to get certified in Ayurveda.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:07:31

And then I was like, well, how am I going to share this to people? Oh, I'm going to start as an Ayurvedic health coach. But over a decade ago, I live in Cleveland, Ohio, you know, conservative Midwest town, saying to people, hey. You need to manage your energy, and you need to meditate, and you need to use a neti pot, and you need to think about your chakras, and you need to think about, you know, using a Squatty Potty, which at that point, you know, you couldn't buy in Target or on Amazon. You had to, like, order from weird sites. Right? So that was tough to build a business in that. So, I had that business, but I was like, okay. I need to figure out what works in my community. Oh, I then got certified as an executive coach.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:08:06

So, I had 2 businesses. One, I was working with CEOs and helping them with this sort of how they were running their organizations, and then I had my health coaching business. I had 2 websites. I had 2 personas. Right? I'd take out my nose ring. I'd cover my tattoos. I wouldn't say fuck. I'd put on a jacket and go and work with the CEOs, and then I'd go and sit in my tie dye and be like, let's talk about your energy and what you're eating and what the energy of the food has.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:08:30

And then I went through my divorce, my ex-husband walked out the 4th time, and I was like, yeah. We're done. And I thought, okay. This is going to be a really difficult period navigating a divorce with 3 young kids. What am I going to commit to? And I decided I was going to commit to learning how to write as a nonacademic because I'd been struggling with, you know, I'd write about meditation, but I'd write a 3,000-word article with fucking references. And I'd be like, why are people engaging with this. You know? This is the 140, you know, word generation. Right? So, I committed to writing in a different way.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:09:06

And I started writing when your 4-year-old daughter comes home from your soon to be ex-husband’s house crying because she misses daddy's new girlfriend, meditate so you don't stick a fork in your eye. Right? And people started engaging because I was suddenly talking about my personal experience making me which, you know, in academia is not the thing. Right? I was like, I'm going to put my personal story in, and I'm going to share, you know, who I am and how I got to where I am and what tools you can use to help. And people started engaging, and then I wrote my book. And then I kind of sat back and realized that habits were the key theme, whether it was how you manage your inbox, your team, your organization, or your relationship to sleeping, eating, exercising, and, you know, your boundaries around how you do that with your major relationships. Right? And I was like, it's all about habits. So, I kind of sat back and rebranded and became the chief habit scientist.

Marli Williams [: 00:10:03

Wow. That is a journey, my friend, and a beautiful one of this theme keeps coming back on this podcast of continuing to follow those breadcrumbs of our curiosity. Nurturing our curiosity and noticing, like, what are the things that we're drawn to. And we tend to, I believe, as entrepreneurs and creatives, create the thing we wish we had.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:10:31

So true. And I think, you know, the people I speak to and engage within the world of entrepreneurship, the ones who are the most passionate are the ones who've, like, figured out how to solve a problem that they needed. Right? And so, they have this deep personal connection to it. They've seen this missing thing, and they're like, you know?

Marli Williams [: 00:10:49

Yeah. And that's part of being an entrepreneur is going on this hero's journey, right, of, like, losing everything or, like, having a come to Jesus’ moment or the rock bottom moment or whatever it is and discovering what it is that we need to support ourselves in moving through that. Like you said, recognizing, oh, wow, this is going to be a difficult moment in my life or a difficult chapter in my life. What do I need in order to move through this as consciously and gracefully as possible? And, you know, and what we were jamming on today before we officially started to get clear on how to be of service to this amazing community is really this idea of conscious leadership and choosing to be mindful as leaders as we go throughout our journey, whether you lead a team, an organization, whether you're a solo entrepreneur and you have to lead yourself, which has its own challenges, whether you are a leader in your community, a leader in your family. You know, I think part of what I love about your work, change your habits, change your life, is as a leader, I think it's really about taking 100% responsibility for your energy, for your presence, for your level of mindfulness, like you said, being intentional in who we're being and how we're showing up. And I believe, like you said, habits are such a baseline that everyone can wrap their head around. It's interesting because I think it blends your world so beautifully. Right? It's something that we can all kind of get.

Marli Williams [: 00:12:38

It's not like too way out there or too woo-woo, and it's also, you know, not like super stuffy because habits can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people and understanding what it is that you need in order to really show up as the powerful, impactful, influential leader that you want to be. It's like, what are the habits that I need to put in place?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:13:02

Absolutely. So, you can think about it almost as being like, how do I resource myself? Which requires that deep sense of radical honesty of when I'm in this situation, when I'm doing the things that I should do, I must do, I feel fucking exhausted. Right? Versus when I'm doing this, I feel warm. I feel connected. I feel that sense of like, ah. Right? Whether it's, like, going to a, you know, a hot yoga class with, like, 50 people in all a sweat or whether doing some Tai Chi in your garden or walking your dog. There isn't a right or wrong answer, which society often puts on you. It's got to look like this. And part of it is you identifying, these are the habits that fill me up, that allow me to be energetically resourced so I can go out and serve and do the shit that lights me up and I know is impactful. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:13:52

Yeah. And I think you're right that I think everyone wants some sort of magical silver bullet. They want the pill or just tell me what to do. And what I appreciate about what you're saying is it's a journey of discovering what that is for you.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:14:09

Right. And recognizing that it's going to change at the time. Right? So, during COVID, one of my children and then another one of my children started struggling with really bad mental health. And it had a huge impact on me as a mother because I'm like, trying to get in there and fix it, and I couldn't. Right? It was beyond my capacity. I had to outsource. Right? And so, I got to this point where, you know, I'd been somebody that gets up and meditated every single morning for years, and I couldn't do it because my mind no longer felt safe. My mind no longer felt like a place I wanted to hang out because it was just full of too much pain because of the pain that my children were going through.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:14:46

And so, what I recognized during that period was that I had to figure out a different habit to start my day when I was in that much psychological emotional pain. Right? And so, I had to exercise. Because if I could move my body, and it's this idea of limbic friction of like, is your habit in alignment with your current energetic state, right? That's the science behind it. Right? And so, it was exercise. And then when he got gray and cold and snowy in winter, and I was like, I don't want to fucking get out of bed. So, then I joined a gym where I would get a $15 credit card charge if I didn't show up to that class that I booked to go to at 7 AM on a Tuesday morning. Right? So, I had to figure out. So that's part of this work too is being able to radically, honestly look at yourself and go, this is not working, but that doesn't mean that I'm a failure. That doesn't mean that I'm shitty. Let me look at how I can figure this out in at this stage of my life.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:38

Yeah. And asking that question and slowing down long enough to ask, what do I need for this season of my life? Wherever your life is at, your business is at, your family, depending on how if you have kids and how old they are, and instead of seeing it as I think so many people get caught up in, like, I'm supposed to meditate because I read an article about it or I should work out in the morning, but then this other article says this should work out at night. And then this person says walk 20 minutes a day, and that person says walk 2 hours a day or whatever. Like, it can be so overwhelming, and I think I see a lot of people not choosing anything because of fear of choosing I'm going to choose the wrong thing versus choosing something.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:16:30

Right. And that part of that is about being willing to experiment, right, and being comfortable with failure, which I think back to the education piece that we, you know, that we both have that sort of background in is I think that our education system has bred out of us comfort with failure because we reward success. We reward the aid, not the effort of trying. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:16:53

Yeah. And I think as adults too with habits, it's like, no one's watching. No one's paying attention. You're not getting a grade. There's no report card. There's not really any external validation that we get maybe from doing other things. I think it requires a whole different level of internal motivation and internal validation. Can it be enough that I know that I did this? And to know when I am in that habit of exercise, it takes a little bit to, like, build it to the point where I know if I don't do it, I'm going to feel worse than when I do, do it, but it takes a minute to get there. Right? I would love to know from your perspective from, like, a neurological, like, scientist brain that you have of why that is so hard. Because I think with something like habits, how to cultivate that internal motivation and internal validation when I think we live in a culture, in a society, in a world that is so externally validating.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:18:09

Right. No. And there is a huge amount of difficulty around navigating that. And particularly when we're entrepreneurs, we live a very public life. Right? That's part of our brand often is, like, showing up online on a regular way. Motivation and procrastination, I just want to have a caveat, is if you have a diagnosis of depression, anxiety, ADHD, PTSD, those are going to be hard. Right? Those things are going to be harder for you. It's going to be harder to motivate, and you're going to deal with procrastination and like the perfectionism and all of those sorts of components of those things.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:18:42

And those rates have massively risen, like the rate of diagnosis of anxiety and depression pre and post COVID in adults and in the preteen teenage as well. Right? So, I just want to caveat that. Right? So that, you know, in terms of we are in a place of massive mental health crisis around that, and those are massively impacted. Motivation around that has really impacted your ability to continue going. So just with that as a sort of forefront, one piece that can be really useful is tying it to your big one. Right? So, we have this idea that we need to work every day, or we need to have a certain number on the scales, or we need to whatever the fuck it is. Right? Whatever the habit is, you know, we need to have the green smoothie. We need to get up at 5 and do the miracle morning.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:19:27

Do you know maybe the miracle morning works well when you're a 25-year-old male, but maybe it doesn't work when you're a 55-year-old menopausal woman and it's, you know, 20 degrees outside. Right? And you tossed and turned all night. You know? So, it's like okay. So, let's look at those. So partly, you have to look at the context of your life. Partly, you need to give yourself grace. And then the kind of the habit science that's really useful is the why is this important to me? For that, I really talk about that in terms of, like, the big vision. What I do with my clients around that is, like, rather than, like, I need to lose 10 pounds, it's I want to have a body that allows me to crawl around with my grandkids. I want to have a body that allows me to paddleboard with my girlfriends. I want to have a body that allows me to hike up Machu Picchu when my grandson graduates high school. Right?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:20:16

So, when you tie it to that, you know, then the decision is not persecutory, and the habit is more about, like, what is this bringing to your life? What is the point of this, you know? Where am I leading towards is one. And then the other thing that I found to be really helpful is this, you know, habits are 70 to 90% of what we do every day. Right? We are habit driven. So, one of the things that can be really helpful is and where people get stuck often is that it has to look the same every day. What you want is consistency, because that is what brings the neural connection, that's what cultivates the brain, the neural pathways. Right?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:20:56

Which I love when you also look at, because I've studied a lot of yoga and Buddhism and yoga philosophy. The yoga texts talk about, like, the grooves that you see in the brain, that they are made by, like, the wheels of a cart horse because of the repetition. Right? That's how they thought about habit, which I love, like that image of, like, the track. But what's more important is that you do the habit every day, not that it's the same amount of time. So, I call it the accordion or elasticity. Right? So, if your commitment is I'm going to move every day, one day it might be a 60-second plank pose because it's 9 o'clock at night and shit's blown up with your kids or, you know, the internet's being down, you may have said to your clients, you know, you just spent the day crying about what's happening in Israel, right, and Palestine, and you just don't have it in you to do your work. So, it's a 60-second plank pose. Right? Another day your exercise is an hour's yoga class. Another day it's a hike with your kids. Another day it's a bike ride. Right? So, you can look at it as this, like, I'm going to commit to move my body every day. 10 seconds, 30 seconds, or an hour and a half.

Marli Williams [: 00:22:04

I love that. I think a lot of people get caught up in it has to be the same. It has to be the same time, exactly the same thing every single day to build that habit. And what I love too is we can choose to create these habits in our life from a place of self-hate or self-love. Like, I love myself enough to go move my body, to go for this walk, even though maybe this email needs to get sent out, I love myself enough to take this break or to go to that yoga class versus hating ourselves into a certain body image or depriving ourselves of, like, food that knowing your why, for what purpose. And it's like, you know, I want to be able to do the things that I love to do. Right? And to move my body in ways that feel good. And, again, seeing that as an experiment, like, try a dance class.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:11

Like, do online, do at home, do in person, phone a friend, you know, like, I love to ask this question of, what do I need in order to make success inevitable and creating the container, creating the environment, creating the context to make that more inevitable than not, meaning, if I know I'm a social person, one of my words of the year, I think it was last year, was depth. And I also value moving my body. Instead of meeting a friend for coffee, I can say, do you want to go for a walk instead? So, I'm creating a moment of deep meaningful connection with a friend and doing something outside. People call that, like, habit stacking or and I've heard different versions of habit stacking where you're doing multiple things at once, or you're like, after I brush my teeth, I'm going to do 1 push up or something like that. Right? But I love this idea of where is it coming from as it relates to our habits. Like, I'm committed to being the best leader that I can be so that I can serve and make the impact I know I'm here to make, so, I'm going to start my day on purpose with this intention, or I'm going to take this vacation. And we can see, like, oh, we take the vacation to take a break from our work versus, like, oh my gosh, when I take this time away, I love this word. I'm resourced so that I can show up and serve.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:47

And so, it's like changing the narrative of leadership of being this, like, self-sacrificing, overwhelmed, stressed-out, burned-out state of being versus, like, modeling that for your people. Taking your days off, taking the leave, taking the vacation, leaving at 5 o'clock, you know, building in those habits at the workplace where no one eats lunch at their desk, whatever it is. One of my favorite parts about working at the university was they had fitness classes. It was like the employee wellness program. And I, like, during lunch break, I would go work out, and it was in community, it was part of my workday. I built it into my, you know, my daily routine. And it's just like, that's what worked for me then. And it's like as an entrepreneur who's alone every day all the time, it's like, I love going to group classes because it's like an in person.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:25:42

Yeah. Yay, people. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:25:45

And then that energy gives me energy so that I have energy to give.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:25:50

Totally. Totally. And the other thing about that that I would like to reflect back is this really important, is, you know, when you run your own business and you are in a state of leadership, a lot of the time you are making a lot of decisions. So, one of the things that can be really helpful about creating habits that support you is recognizing where you can outsource that decision making. So, I noticed that with working out too. You know, when I'm in a sort of full on, like, state of cultivating, creating something in my business, remember we make a lot of decisions, which I'm doing right now with this group program that I've been tweaking and playing with. I can only really go to group classes. If I go to the gym with the intention of lifting weights, I walk into the weight section. I'm going, hang on. Am I doing chest biceps? And I just want to be like, I want to go to a weights class where somebody has told me, pick up those weights, do 20 squats. Right? And I don't have to think, oh my god. How many squats? Like, did I repeat that? Did I up the way? You know, I want to be told not to do.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:46

100%. And I love this, like, knowing what it is that works for you. Right? I'm the same way. Like, and decision fatigue is real. And I just want to go to a class or you tell me what to do, and I rock it out for an hour, and I'm done, and I move on. Because if I'm just, like, wandering around a gym, like, I'm just going to waste my time. And so, that's part of setting myself up for success and knowing, like, yeah, I am going to pay more for, you know, a small group training class than, like, a $10 a month membership at, you know, 24-hour fitness. But I'm going to personally get so much more out of that. And sometimes for me, when I have, like, that skin in the game, like, I better go 4 times a week or whatever. You know?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:27:36

Right. So again, and the other piece around that too is, you know, as you say, like, know thyself. Right? Other people with this, what they need for exercise is repetition. Like, that's soothing. They like to run the same track at the high school and listen to music or listen to a podcast. But what they like is that space for their mind to run free, and they don't have to think. So, they get on the running machine. They run a track. Right? So really, again, it's stepping away from the shoulds to what resources do you, what feels good.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:28:07

What's the other way, so think about it as, what is the lowest barrier to entry? So, when I'm feeling tired, when I'm feeling overwhelmed, what is the thing that's going to motivate me to take action? What's the thing that's going to make it the easiest for me to go, yeah, I'm getting in the car, or I'm getting on the bike, or I'm getting you know? For me, with exercise, it's the financial penalty or that you can't sign up to another class for, you know, 48 hours because you didn't show up for the spot you reserved. That really works for me. So, I'm a member of a gym where if it's a paid package, like the Pilates classes are paid, if I don't show up, I lose one of my credits for that month. 1 of the weight’s classes or one of the swim classes or one of the Zumba classes or any of those other ones, yoga, if I don't show up, I then can't reserve for 48 hours.

Marli Williams [: 00:28:57

There's some, like, consequence. There's a future commitment. Right? Like, I've signed up for this class on Thursday at 2 o'clock or whatever and if I don't go to it, there's some sort of consequence. And so, again, it's like, I love it. Know yourself and know what it is. Like, if you want to go for a walk 3 times a week or something and you have a friend in your neighborhood, hey. Let's go for a walk Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 7 AM.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:29:29

Yeah. Exactly. When they're knocking on your door, you're going to be fucking up with your sneakers on and ready to go. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:29:35

Right. Whether you want to or not. Like, if I say, let's go for a hike at 7 AM on Saturday, and I'm not meeting someone there, that it's energetically it requires so much more energy. And, again, that's just knowing what I know about me. And so, I would invite anyone who's listening to this, like, knowing yourself is part of this journey of figuring out what habits are going to work for you. What habits are going to support you, and I think the question is how can you set yourself up for a win, and create the environment that really will support you. And part of that is an experiment and trying different things. There are walking groups. There's running groups in different neighborhoods. Right? There's a bike group that meets on Saturday mornings at the park at 9 AM, you know, whether that's the yoga class down the street, a gym membership, going to the gym with a buddy.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:30:36

Right. Or the stacking model. Like, I had a client who the financial ding, he was like, give a fuck. That doesn't bother me. What made him do it was booking classes in alignment with picking up and taking his kid to daycare. He's like, I got to be in the car. I got to be going out. I got to be going in this direction. So, I'm going to schedule my class, like, before or after drop off depending on which point of the day, he was picking up or dropping off his kid. You know? That motivated him. He was up. He was dressed. He was on his way. You know? The financial thing wasn't. Right? So back to that know thyself is so important. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:31:10

It's so important. And I think really seeing this as an essential part of being an effective, influential, powerful, epic leader is I'm willing to take 100% responsibility for my energy even in the midst, and this is I would love to talk a little bit about this piece just because bringing it back to going through some really challenging times. As a leader, as an entrepreneur, and also being a mom and going through divorce or kids facing mental health or the crises that are happening in our world, and it's easy to keep our habits going when, like, life is good, things are happening for me, but it's kind of like when shit hits the fan or when we're struggling in our own mental health, how to keep showing up for ourselves even in the midst of life, lifeing us as it were. Because life will life you, and this isn't about, like, how to build habits when everything's rainbows and butterflies, but it's, I think, seeing habits as a part of being able to resource ourself so that we can navigate these challenges with more capacity.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:32:33

Right. And so, you know, one way to look at this, and again, it comes back to knowing yourself and playing. Sometimes what can be helpful is having a list of things to do. Right? So, if you wake up in the morning and you think, okay. I've got to move. Like, I know that's going to make me feel better. And you have, like, on your fridge or on your bathroom mirror, like, I'm going to do this Tai Chi video, or I'm going to, you know, look outside. It's not raining or the sidewalk isn't icy. I'm going to take my dog for a quick walk around the block, let her run-in the backyard or sometimes creating a list. So, as you wake up and what's useful about that, depending on where you are in that mental health space, for example, is it gives you a sense of freedom, which a lot of my clients have that rebellious energy of, like, don't fucking tell me what to do. So, it gives a little bit of that. So, if you give yourself a little list to pick from, that can be really helpful. But the other thing that's really juicy about that is it also cultivates that sense of looking inside. What do I actually need right now to make me feel the best right now and allow me to get on with my day. Sometimes, for example, I'll wake up and I'll think, I'm not ready to move. What I need to do is fill myself up with joy and energy.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:33:48

So, I might, you know, watch videos or, like, partake in a Mind valley class I'm doing that's about thinking about the world in an enlightening open way. Because I'm like, okay. I'll be ready to move once I feel that energetic shift within me, because I'm not ready to resource myself from within right now, right? So, giving yourself permission and cultivating that deep sense of self-trust. Because when we act in alignment with what we need, we cultivate self-trust. And when we cultivate self-trust, we can then be an intentional leader. What's funny, so, I was thinking about this the other day. My PhD thesis was titled, Intention and Reactivity, and I had studied that in the motor cortex and from the sort of grounding of philosophy and psychological disorders.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:34:33

But that theme has come through in the work that I do now because one of the things that I really help people do is step into that energy of how to be intentional so that they're not always in a state of reactivity and reacting to the environment and everything else, they can be like, hang on. Like, what do I need right now?

Marli Williams [: 00:34:53

Mm-hmm. And that's such a powerful question, and seeing that as an invitation and as a practice. Because I think if you've never done something like that before, for some people that can feel overwhelming, 1, or 2, your first response to that question might be, I don't know. I don't know what I need because I've never actually paused long enough to ask the question and then to answer it honestly. And at the beginning, it's like, I need a nap. I need a walk. I need a hug. I need a pep talk. Right? I need a glass of water. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:35:38

Like, I think that that's such a powerful question to start asking yourself, especially when you're finding yourself in those moments of reactivity, which happens when we are not resourced. Right? It's really hard to be creative and proactive and productive when we are burned out, overwhelmed, tired, exhausted, frustrated. And when we are in those states, can we cultivate a level of, you know, from where we're talking about this idea of conscious and mindful leadership of actually pausing. Oh, wow. I notice I'm having this really strong reaction right now or, like, I noticed I'm really irritated right now. I wonder what I need. I wonder what I need and starting to get curious about that, and I love this idea, and I've done something similar. I call it, you know, creating your own personal playlist.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:35

You can, you know, create your own playlist on Spotify, but thinking about just getting a blank piece of paper and writing down all of the things that give you energy and bring you joy. You know, 60-second dance party, cuddling with my cat or my dog, talking to a good friend, having a delicious cup of coffee, moving my body, being in nature, and actually having this list where, you know, if you do have 5 minutes or 15 minutes or 5 hours, like, you can look at this list of what's something that I can do right now to nourish myself, to resource myself, and giving yourself permission that it doesn't have to be same thing every day.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:37:20

And it doesn't have to be productive, and it doesn't have to be goal directed, and it doesn't have to be, you know, like, that you can check off the list of, like, I did this thing. Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:37:32

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like the, can you doing it for you be enough.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:37:39

Right. And then that ripples out into what it looks like to step into that leadership role. Right? Because if you are not willing to look at yourself and slow down, it's going to be really hard for you then to look at the people around you and go, are you getting what you need? Are you getting what you need? Or being able to look at them and go, I noticed your energy shift when this happened. I noticed your recoil. I noticed you looked down. I noticed you didn't reply to that email. I noticed your voice dropped when we started talking about that. Right? It's hard to notice that in the people you lead, whether it's your kids, your community, you know, a nonprofit, your activism, or, you know, you're the CEO of fucking massive corporation. Right? Or you are like me, and you have, like, OBM and a VA. You know? Like but it's about your ability to do it for yourself so you can then look at and go, oh, yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:28

Yeah. And, again, seeing that you modeling that for people is the most powerful thing that you can do because we can have all these workplace employee wellness programs or whatever it is, but people don't do what you say they do what you do. So, when you model that, the slowing down, the mindfulness, the leaving at 5 o'clock, the taking the vacation, the taking the time off, it really does give the people around you permission to do the same. If you are, oh, burned out overwhelmed workaholic, then everyone that you work with is going to assume that that is what you expect. And I think that that is the ripple effect that happens when we show up for ourselves is we give other people permission to do the same. So, I would love to hear, this is a powerful, powerful conversation. What final thoughts would you like to leave people with as they go out into the world and hopefully apply some of these things that we have been talking about today to their lives?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:39:37

So, I'm going to say 2 things. 1 is when you start thinking about habits that affect your life, don’t try and change every habit. Like, people get really excited about it. They're like, I'm going to change this and this and this, and, like, that doesn't work. Overwhelming, right? If you can, identify the big change you want to make in the world and figure out what is the habit that'll trigger that. Right? So, the keystone habit is this idea of, like, when you have that habit, everything else ripples like the Keystone art. Everything else ripples and falls into place around it.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:40:12

So, it might be that if you are well slept and well-resourced in that way, you follow your to do list. You exercise. You eat well. Your temper is managed. Right? It might be that you need somebody who comes and cleans your house once a week. Because cleaning your house is so exhausting and overwhelming to you, and dealing with everybody else bitching about it is exhausting and overwhelming. So, if your house is clean and everybody in your house is calm, you can get everything done. So that's one thing to do is you can start to play with, what is that 1 habit that I can shift? Like, can I delegate something? Can I wake up before everybody else at my house and just have 40 minutes before, that was my big breakthrough as a mom, was that I was waking up when the 1st kid woke up or the dog woke up or my husband, you know? And I was like, reacting to it rather than going, I'm going to start the day on my own fucking terms. Thank you very much. Right?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:41:06

So, start playing with, can you figure out what is that one habit that's it's going to ripple through. And you can do that by looking back over your life or going, this is what I'm trying to achieve. People who have achieved that, what do they do? Surrounding yourself with people who have the habits that you're trying to cultivate makes it so much easier. So that's 1 piece. Right? So, start playing with that. Second, give yourself grace. We are our own worst critics.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:41:36

The way that we talk to ourselves or the way I hear people talk to themselves, the way, I'm like, I would never fucking say that to one of my friends who I love. Why do I think it's okay to talk to myself like that, right? So, you know, giving yourself grace when you fail and being kind to yourself and going, oh, you know, I ate a doughnut for breakfast. And my sugar crashed, and I felt shitty and blah. But, hey, I can eat a goddamn kale salad and grilled chicken for lunch. Like, I don't have to be like, that's it. I'm done, or, you know, you snap at one of your kids and you're like, this is it.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:10

It's over. Yeah. I'm a terrible person.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:42:12

Right?

Marli Williams [: 00:42:13

I love that so much. And to speak to both of your points, one of the things that I love is this idea that success leaves clues. Are there people that I know that have what I want? And, like, you know, asking those questions, what are they doing, and really being a detective and getting curious of what is that keystone habit that will ripple out into every other area of my life. Like, when I do this one thing, everything else tends to work. And instead of thinking, like, if I have to change everything, like, what's the one thing that I could change that would change? I call it, like, the 1-degree shift.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:42:55

Exactly.

Marli Williams [: 00:42:56

It's not 180 degrees. It's like 1 degree.

Tamsin Astor [: 00:43:00

Right. And I struggled with that in my business. Like, when my kids were struggling, I was like, I'm not showing to the clients. It's just I, like, fired my team. But then I found myself doing the shit in my business that I don't enjoy. I don't enjoy doing all the techy stuff. I don't enjoy making all the pretty slides. I'm the big picture idea speaker. I don't want to do all the finickity stuff. And then I'm drained because I'm spinning out of it. I'm like, that was not a smart move.

Marli Williams [: 00:43:23

Right. It's an energy suck versus, you know, something that gives you energy. And paying attention to, like, what are the things that you do that give you energy? What depletes your energy, and I want to leave people with this comment on this last piece that you mentioned of starting to notice that the way that we talk to ourselves about ourselves is a habit, and it's probably the biggest habit, if you start to notice, if you start to pay attention to, seeing that how you talk to yourself about yourself. Your thoughts are habitual. And when we can bring awareness to that and begin to practice more of that self-love, that kindness, that compassion that we give to everybody else. It's, like, how can I love myself enough to show up for myself so that I can be the person and the parent and the leader that I really want to be? I love myself enough to give myself this time in the morning to move my body in these ways, to spend time doing things that I love, that nourish me so that I can be resourced and serve and make the impact that I'm here to make, and that's part of knowing your why, being connected to your why, and choosing to show up for yourself and playing with this, you know, and seeing it, like you said, as this, like, giant experiment of, like, how do I do this? Even better. You know? And not taking ourselves so damn seriously, allowing ourselves to play and also not letting ourselves totally off the hook. Right? It's like finding this, like, sweet playful spot in the middle. What do I need to show up as the best version of me? Knowing that's going to look different every single day. So, I just want to thank you so much for joining us here today. Where can people find you and learn more about you and your amazing work in the world?

Tamsin Astor [: 00:45:32

Facebook and LinkedIn. My name, Tamsin Astor. You can find me on Facebook. You can find me on LinkedIn. That's where I tend to play. I send out weekly letters. I'm live a lot. I send out reels, all of that juicy stuff where I give you little insights into how habits connected to that big vision. And often the other piece that's really fucking juicy is that habits or habit dysfunction is often a symptom of something bigger, like you've lost your purpose. You don't like your job anymore. Your relationships are not happy. You come and you're like, I'm not this anymore. I'm not exercising anymore. I'm not sitting anymore. Actually, it's maybe that you just realized that this job you've done for 20 years no longer fills you up, and that habit is a symptom.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:17

So good. Well, if you want to geek out on how to change your habits so that you can change your life, definitely check out Tamsin's amazing work. Get on our Instagram. Get on the LinkedIns. Get on the Facebooks. All the things. And thank you again all so much for joining us here at the Marli Williams podcast. If this served you, if you got something out of this, we would love for you to rate, review, subscribe, share this with a friend so that we can keep spreading the love and leading together. Until next time. Take care.

Marli Williams [: 00:46:52

Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching, and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review this podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.