Breaking the Burnout Cycle: Finding Joy and Purpose in Your Work -73

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Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:00:05

Physical spaces. So I try to make this just a workspace. So I try not to do, like, personal stuff in here. I'm also intentional about what I wear and work things that I wouldn't wear outside of work. And if I take a break during the middle of the day, like to check Instagram or do personal stuff, I will leave the room. I don't do it in here. I go into my living room, maybe when I'm eating lunch or something. So I try to maintain the boundaries of the physical environment as well.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:00:34

So those are some things that they're relatively new things that I've been doing that I notice just have really helped.

Marli Williams [: 00:00:42

Hey, everyone, what's happening? I am super stoked to welcome you to the Marli Williams Podcast where we will explore authentic leadership, transformational facilitation, and how to create epic experiences for your audiences every single time. I am your host, Marli Williams, bringing you thought provoking insights, expert interviews, and actionable strategies to unlock your potential as a leader, facilitator and speaker. Thank you for joining me on this journey of growth, transformation and impact. Let's lead together. The Marli Williams Podcast begins now. Let's dive in.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:26

Well, hey everybody, what is happening? I'd love to welcome you back to the Marli Williams Podcast where this week, my friends, you're in for yet another treat. We get to hang out with the amazing, the powerful Laura Suttin, who is a board certified, family physician, certified coach, consultant, author, speaker and entrepreneur. Laura, welcome to the show.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:01:52

Thank you. So good to talk to you.

Marli Williams [: 00:01:54

Oh, so good to have you here. And you know, Laura and I met through an organization for speakers. I love people who are growth oriented, Right. And this I like. And that's why I love this podcast. It's like, how can I do what I'm doing even better than I'm already doing it? And I'm excited to have a really, you know, juicy conversation with you around how we can help people that are high achievers. They want to make a difference in the world, but they also want to have a good time doing it and they don't want to burn out. Right? And so I just think it's going to be a good conversation.

Marli Williams [: 00:02:30

I'd love for you to share a little bit, but as we start this journey together, a little bit more about like, kind of what has brought you to this work around helping people, as in your words, create a life that they love without the guilt. I was just saying, I'm like, I love the without the guilt part because it's like, oh, you know I think about all of the things like what gets in the way of someone creating a life that they love. And I think I hear a lot of people, well, who am I to have a life that I love when other people are suffering or I don't know how, or I'm here to make a difference, and it doesn't care if my personal life is suffering because, like, I'm. I'm on a mission. Right. But it's like holistically, this holistic approach to being more purposeful on our path. So, yeah, maybe share just a little bit about your story, your journey, what brings you to this work, and then we can take it from there.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:03:19

Yeah, thanks. So, as you mentioned, I'm a family physician, still practicing, and I've really wanted to be in healthcare my whole life. I kind of toyed with nursing, medicine, physician. And I think, like a lot of people who go into healthcare, we do it because we really want to take care of people. Yeah, it sounds like such a cliche, like, I just want to help people, but it's true. We go into it because we want to serve, and yet we get to medical training at least. I don't know if it's getting any better. It's probably not because medical school is so competitive these days.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:03:55

I don't think I would have gotten in, but I got in. I'm here. And training just sucks the life out of you. And it sucks the purpose. At least it did out of me and a lot of my colleagues and a lot of people I still talk to from either from school or just my physician colleagues. It's really, really draining, and it's physically exhausting and demanding, but that we can put up with. But the ethos in medicine is the patient comes first, no matter what. We want to be patient centered, but not at the expense of our own health.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:04:25

And it is so common in training and medical training to go without sleeping, eating, going to the bathroom. I mean, these things have to happen, right? We're human. And it was a badge of honor to be up all night, on call, if you slept. It was a sign of weakness. It really was. And so this notion that is so ingrained in so many physicians that we have to sacrifice ourselves in order to take care of our patients. And it's like the. The joke about, well, how does the fish know it's swimming in water? You know, the fish asking what water is.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:05:02

Like, it's so part of the culture that we don't even see it until. Except, like, if somebody. At the time I was My now ex husband I was married to was not in medicine, still not in medicine. And so I had a lot of friends, his friends that were not in medicine are like, you realize this is kind of crazy, right? Like all this work that you're doing and it takes somebody that's outside of that to call attention to that. And so in that journey I just really started to see how there's gotta be a better way. But coming out of training, building my practice, becoming a mom all around the same time, it wasn't until I was a physician leader for a large organization where I started to see, well, first of all, I can be a part of the change. I have some authority, I have some influence. And that was, that was really empowering for me to see, not just from a one on one with a patient perspective, but working with other physicians and starting to see how I can do some coaching and mentoring with them, which led me to become a certified coach about four years ago, start my own coaching business and then growing that into consulting again because I wanted to have a bigger impact than I did with one on one clients, which I still love, one on one clients.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:06:15

But working with healthcare leaders, helping them to redesign their teams and then speaking to large audiences. So it just kind of built from there. But again, yeah, just really seeing that, yeah, there's a better way, There's a better way to do healthcare. We don't have to sacrifice ourselves and our humanity in order to take care of patients. We don't have to ask patients to sacrifice their own humanity in order to be patients. Nobody likes being a patient. It's not fun for anybody. Healthcare is not fun for anybody right now.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:06:46

And so how can we collectively really start to at least identify there's a better way and then what are the building blocks it takes to get there?

Marli Williams [: 00:06:54

Thank you for sharing that, that story. And I think like you said, when you're swimming in the sea of the expectations and you know, especially again in the medical field, it can be hard for you to like step out of that and have perspective and like recognizing like, what's the cost of that? And this idea, you know, for people out there that like they're, you know, people that are listening, they're change makers. There's, you know, my partner's a nurse, she's in healthcare. And people that are, they're here to make a difference, they're here to make an impact. And I think that sometimes we think in order to do that I have to sacrifice myself. And there are, you know, certain industries and like Cultures that really support that narrative. And it's like the more hours you work and then how many days are you on call and how long did you stay up? And it's like, yeah, we're wearing that as like this badge of honor in a way. And it's like, oh, what's the cultural context of taking time off, using your leave, using your vacation days, when it feels like if I don't show up, you know, in the medical world, it's like people will die or someone won't be okay, or my team won't be okay or what? You know, when you get into leadership, it's like, they can't do it without me.

Marli Williams [: 00:08:19

And I don't want to let people down. And we can get really, really caught up in that cycle. And this idea, you know, this is why I love this. Create the life that you love without the guilt. Because then it's like, well, then maybe people take the leave or they take the time off or they call in sick and then they can't even enjoy themselves because they're feeling so guilty for not being there. And so I would love for you, I mean, I'm like, tell me how to. It's like, how do we show up for ourselves, for people again in any sort of service based industry without taking on that guilt that can come up when we do take the leave, take the time, take the vacation, call in sick and doing that from a different place.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:09:04

Yeah, I mean, a lot of my work and where I've grown up has been in the medical space, but I've talked to educators, I've talked to attorneys, I've talked to people in the hospitality, restaurant service industries. I mean, that's a very different industry, but very similar ethos is the customer's always right. And not that we don't want to be customer centric, but they're at what cost exactly like you said. I love that question. I remember very clearly. I had a one on one client who was telling me about this medical emergency she had at the middle of the night. She felt like she couldn't call in sick. The next day.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:09:37

She went in, saw her patients and just was miserable. And even her patients were like, are you okay? The first step is recognition, right? First step is just understanding that that's a very pervasive culture in corporate life. So many different industries, not just in healthcare. And I remember this just came to me. I remember a coach tell me once, like, you're replaceable, Laura. And not in like a bad way, but like, what if you got Hit by a bus, what would they do? And I'm like, yeah, they'd figure it out. And she was like, yeah, they'd figure it out. So that was a very, it was in your face, aha moment.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:10:14

But I think even just recognizing that the culture that we're raised in, not just in healthcare, but in a lot of kind of Western high achieving society is very much around your measure of value is what you produce and how you show up at work and taking time for yourself is not okay. I mean we look at, I don't know, the stats, but how few PTO days we get in the US in the EU and uk, like how much time they take off. And so I think it is a maybe more unique here in the U.S. but yeah, just this notion of like that's kind of how we feel like we're supposed to be. But we know that it's human to take a day off, it's human to call in sick and we all need rest, we need breaks again, something as simple like, okay, can I step away from this surgical procedure and go to the bathroom or I'm nursing, can I go pump? Like all of these things that are human and that we feel like we have to ask permission for or that are not quote unquote allowed. So I think recognizing it is the first thing. And also talking with other people, shared experiences, talking about connection on your show, like, how do we connect with other people who are going through the same thing? How do we realize that we're struggling with a lot of the same things? How do we reach out and ask for help? Whether that's a friend or mentor or coach or whatever that looks like.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:35

Yeah. We live in this world and a culture that values productivity at such a high degree.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:11:42

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:11:43

And that, that people drive their own value and worth from how hard can I work? How much can I show up? And then like again, there's company cultures that really reinforce that narrative versus like okay, we really celebrate and acknowledge, like have a great vacation versus like guilt tripping people or good for you or whatever it is. Right. Like what's the conversation that's happening when people do ask for what they need? And I think that it's so important to recognize again, it's like we have this level of self importance. Like if I don't show up, like everything will fall apart and it's like they will figure it out. And I think about it in a way where I'm like, where am I not giving people credit to be able to handle it and to be Resourceful and to figure it out. And it's like, all these other people are very intelligent, capable, you know, humans, and they will be okay. And actually I spoke at an HR conference recently and I was sitting at a table and chatting with them about vacation days. And I was so intrigued to look up, you know, I'm sure, like, there's some stat out there where it's like, how many people, like most people don't even use up their vacation days.

Marli Williams [: 00:13:00

Even though we only get two weeks a year, there are many people that still don't use them. And she was saying that more companies or more people at companies where they, if they have a policy, if you don't use it, you lose it. People use it versus some companies where it's like, if you don't use it, it'll roll over. So if you don't use it, you lose it. People or companies, people actually tend to use it more than others. And even they use it more than people who have unlimited pto.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:13:30

Interesting.

Marli Williams [: 00:13:31

Yeah. Which I thought was like, huh, super interesting. Around the psychology of it. And like, oh, if I don't use these, they're going to go away. Versus like, oh, I'll go on that trip next year or I'll do that thing another time, you know. And the value of like, okay, I know. And I would imagine it's like, what blows my mind, especially in medicine, is like, when I am well rested and my needs are taken care of, guess what? I am going to be a better doctor. Especially if someone's doing like, open heart surgery.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:04

I don't want someone who's been up for 24 hours cracking me open. I mean, from a patient care perspective and human perspective of like, you know, sometimes I think as a little kid I was like, doctors, like, they're imperviable and we're all human. If our needs are getting met and if our relationships are terrible and we're not getting sleep and we didn't eat and we have to pee or whatever it is, we might not make the best decisions. And when lives are on the line, I feel like that's an important piece of the puzzle. And, you know, there are people where lives are not on the line and yet we act like. Meaning, like, I have. My big mantra is like, it's not a kidney in a cooler.

Marli Williams [: 00:14:50

Like, we get an email and we feel like we're about to do open heart surgery. We react and respond to everything like it's an emergency procedure versus, like, take a deep breath. It's okay. I'm Gonna give myself time to respond, you know. One of my favorites is like when I get those emails back from someone and they're like, I check my email twice a day at 10am and 4pm and I will respond within 48 hours or some shit. You know, I'm like, okay, there are some boundaries. You've got good boundaries there. But I mean like, you don't, you don't need to do that.

Marli Williams [: 00:15:25

But I'm just saying it's like, where can we let ourselves off the hook of not having to just be in so in reaction mode and this pressure that we put on ourselves to perform at this like high, high level without rest and without our needs being met and without like having that time to re replenish and nourish ourselves so that we can meet the moment, you know, and especially in like high stakes situations, people are not able to perform at their best when they're not, when they're exhausted. At the end of the day, I'm like, this is a safety situation. This is a, this is an issue.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:16:05

You know, I mean, you travel a lot and so I'm sure you've been in the situation where a flight's delayed enough and the crew time's out. I used to get mad at that and now I'm like, thank goodness. Like, I don't want to be on that plane with that tired crew.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:20

Yeah.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:16:21

You know?

Marli Williams [: 00:16:21

Yeah, 100%. And it's like we're too in our lives where like we push through. It's like someone else needs to tell us, like, you have timed out.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:16:32

Yes.

Marli Williams [: 00:16:32

It's time to turn off your computer and go to bed. You know, and especially for people out there, like, you know, we're entrepreneurs, we do our own thing. It's like we can work 24 freaking hours a day, seven days a week, and all you need is a laptop on your computer or your phone. And it's like we're so in it that we don't, you know, it's like tap out where it's like, turn it off. It's okay that I don't respond tonight. It's 10 o'. Clock. It's like, I'm like, I don't want them to know I'm checking my email at 10.

Marli Williams [: 00:17:03

But then you like schedule it to send the next day, but you're writing at a 10. I'm like, I see you, I see you out there, people where I just think it's so interesting, like, and again that this guilt part of like, okay, I'm not going to Respond to this email. I'm gonna go to bed, I'm gonna read my book, I'm gonna get. You know, and then it's like, but, like, what do you think are some of the stories that you've heard from, you know, you work with executives and leaders and these big companies, and we're just saying, like, take care of yourself. And you're like, what do you hear people say when it comes to that guilt piece of like, why is it hard for people to kind of like, again, time out for themselves, take time away, take the vacation, call in sick, like, whatever it is. What are some of, like, the stories that you tend to hear a ton of?

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:17:53

It is just what they're seeing around them, what's celebrated, what's recognized. And so, I mean, so many times a lot of my work again was administrative leadership and some patient care. Still to this day, I remember very clearly sitting in on meetings and people would. This was before the days where everybody was using Zoom. But so a lot of meetings were really conference calls and you'd hear somebody dial in and then you go, oh, I thought you were on pto. And, oh, well, I just decided to call in. I didn't want to miss this meeting. And oh, thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:18:23

Thanks so much for calling, calling in.

Marli Williams [: 00:18:24

And instead of being like, get out of here. Yeah.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:18:27

Instead of being like, we're hanging up on you right now, you need to go. And so if that's celebrated and rewarded, there's the dopamine, there's the slot machine that's going to continue. And so the going to build the culture of we want you to. Doesn't matter whether or not we used to call it. They used to call it pretend time off.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:18:47

And so really disconnecting. Like, I would know people that would specifically take cruises just so they wouldn't have Internet access, because otherwise they'd feel this pull to be checking email. And so, I mean, this is one thing I love working with leaders on is as leaders, you set the tone. You set the tone for the team, for the environment, and you have to model it. Maybe it's best for you to be emailing at 10 o' clock at night. We'll coach on that separately. That's a whole separate issue. Let's focus on what the message is that that's sending to your team, that they need to be awake till 10:30 to see your email.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:19:25

I had a leader once who go on vacation and he was good about not responding to things while he was on vacation, but he would come back on Saturday religiously and then Sunday he like my inbox would fill up with his 100 responses to emails that have come in. And so I felt like I've got to read these on Sunday or Monday morning. I'm going to walk into a minefield and he's going to ask things of us that he wants by Monday, you know. And so it's like, so it really starts with the leader setting the tone and some awareness of what's the message that you're sending the people around you and what expectations are you setting. That's one thing. And if it's somebody that's not in a position, maybe they're an independent contributor. It's got to set those boundaries for yourself. I mean you talked about it like from entrepreneur.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:20:13

I've been a full time entrepreneur now for a year and a half and I still struggle with the boundaries. I'm in my house, my commute is two feet and so I've created rituals for myself. I have startup and wind down rituals for myself now that are really helpful so that it gets me into work mode and then out of work mode and into family mode. And I've toyed with it over the years and iterating and if it doesn't work for me tomorrow, then I'll try something else.

Marli Williams [: 00:20:39

Yeah, I think that that's a great idea and I think I would love for if you're willing to share with are because I think for a lot of people who do work from home that can be challenging. Like there's no kind of on off switch and we can always kind of be in and out of work and we're kind of like halfway there, both directions. Meaning like I'm halfway kind of working because I'm also doing my laundry and I'm talking to my kids and like I'm walking my dog and I'm doing all these things. So I'm like living my life and I'm working and it's so intertwined that we don't always have that kind of like dedicated deep work focus time where we can really be productive. So if you're willing to share and I think it's a great for people to think about like what helps me kind of get in the zone when it comes to work and then also what helps me kind of turn off, shut off and have. How do I create my own boundaries around my time, my energy and my work if I'm not like going to a physical location for that?

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:21:38

Yeah. So well, I'll start with my Wind down routine, something that I've started doing. So I use a paper. I mean, I love all my digital stuff, but I still no affiliation. But I use a full focus planner to help me plan out my day. So at the end of the day this is a twofold because I've also really wanted to start to celebrate. I think a lot of us, at least for me, I forget the good things I do. At the risk of sounding like I'm tooting my own horn, but forgetting like, wow, what did I really get done today? What did I accomplish? What did I do that I can celebrate? So at the end of every day, the full focus planner has a place to write in daily win.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:22:15

So second last thing I do is what did I get done on my task list? What do I need to carry over and then plan for the next day? What does the calendar look like? What are my top three things for the next day? And then the daily win. And then I shut my journal, kind of clean up my area and then leave. And it's such a small thing, but it really helps me to transition into. Okay, now let's talk about dinner or, you know, however I'm going to spend the evening with my husband. We're empty nesters now, so which is a whole other transition. But it really keeps me from. I do have the temptation to check my email on my phone at night and sometimes I still do, but it's a little bit less automatic. It's more now I'm like, no, I've already wound down for the day.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:22:56

I don't want to go back. And it's like I've shut that door. I don't want to go back in that room. So that's been super helpful. I'm very intentional about physical spaces. So I try to make this just a workspace. So I try not to do like personal stuff in here. I'm also intentional about what I wear and work things that I wouldn't wear outside of work.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:23:15

And if I take a break during the middle of the day, like to check Instagram or do personal stuff, I will leave the room. I don't do it in here. I go into my living room. Maybe when I'm eating lunch or something, I'm so I try to maintain the boundaries of the physical environment as well. So those are some things that they're relatively new things that I've been doing that I notice just have really helped.

Marli Williams [: 00:23:37

Yeah, I think it's so important. You know, it's like again, if you do work from home, you know, what helps you gear up and prepare? And it's like, it's so easy to like maybe just like sit on the couch and sweats on your computer. And when you think about the energy that you're bringing to that versus like, okay, I'm going to actually like shower, I'm going to get dressed, I'm going to put on something decent, I'm going to get in my office or like have a dedicated kind of work environment or space, have a chair and sitting at a desk, you know, versus like having your laptop on your lap, you know? Right. And I think it can help our brain switch on or off depending on our physical location because it gives us cues like, okay, it's time to work versus it's time to relax. And if the couch is for relaxing and you're trying to work, that can be a little bit like, oh, why is it so hard for me to focus? And so having those like, I think physical boundaries, energetic boundaries, time boundaries when it comes to our work. And then I love the wind down of. It's so easy to forget what we accomplished that day and just to have that moment of like to celebrate the small wins. Like so often we wait for the big ones, but it's like there's little wins.

Marli Williams [: 00:24:49

Like, what? And I like at the beginning it's like, okay, what's one to three max things that I need to get done today that would make today a win and can I do those in the first hour and kind of be like, everything else is a bonus, like whatever that is. Great. And then at the end of the day it's like, what's one to three things that I'm proud that I did and got done today and acknowledge it. Like, I just think there's like a self acknowledgment piece to that that's just so important. And we can celebrate our productivity and we can also celebrate rest. Like, I'm proud of myself for getting eight hours of sleep or I'm proud of myself for like taking that walk during lunch. Or can we also celebrate and acknowledge, like, how are we showing up for ourselves beyond just like, what did I get done? But what did I do for me?

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:25:38

Yeah, absolutely. How well did I keep those boundaries? And if I didn't, did I notice that I felt differently from it? Like if I did decide to go work on the couch, like noticing, okay, maybe I'm don't feel as energetic. And then also if I'm working on the couch, how do I feel when I'm trying to relax on the couch.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:25:57

It's kind of like that whole sleep hygiene thing about, like, don't watch TV in bed because then it's gonna be hard to fall asleep. And so it's like the couch. The couch hygiene.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:07

Yeah. I think it's just, like, so, so important. And when it comes to, again, where do we find that balance between. You know, I think it's like, we want to make a difference. We want to do meaningful work in the world, and we don't want to be so exhausted that we burn out and that we're stressed and that, again, treating everything like a kidney in a cooler. And I think that there's this just a balance of, like, I can be seriously passionate about the work that I do and recognizing that, like, in order to do that work, I need to show up for myself and take care of myself and see that. And it's not extra, but that it's essential. What else have you seen work for people when it comes to that perspective of helping people give themselves permission to do those things, like, to set those boundaries.

Marli Williams [: 00:26:57

Because it's like, yes, if we're in a corporation, ideally, as leaders, you're creating a company culture where that's safe to take time off, ask for what you need, and all of that. And then as an individual contributor or someone working for themselves to set your own boundaries and expectations. And, you know, I'm someone who. My expectations for myself are, like, way up here, and, like, I will never meet them no matter what kind of thing. And. And I'm just curious, like, how else you help people navigate the guilt that can come up when, oh, my God, I have all this work to do. My. I mean, I.

Marli Williams [: 00:27:31

I remember hearing my mom say that I can't go do that because my desk is a mess, or I have this to do or that to do. And so that tends to override when we have, like, a laundry list of things. That's why people stay up late. They work on the weekends. They do these things because, like, they feel guilty not getting something done. Yeah.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:27:51

I think kind of along the recognition lines is, like, the to do list is never going to be. It's never going to be clean. Like, there's always going to be something. And so I think that's one of the things when I work with a lot of physicians, is they. A lot of physicians burden lately is around managing electronic medical records and messages that come in, and, you know, they want to be at inbox zero. And I'm like, how realistic is that? You know, just even asking that question how realistic is it that you get to Inbox Zero? Well, it's not. I'm never going to be@inbox0. Okay, well, let's start there.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:28:23

And what is it that you need to feel good about leaving at the end of the day? Or do you even need to feel good about leaving at the end of the day? Do you just commit to being like, it's all of these kind of seeing, what's the trade off? What is it? If you're saying yes to this, what else are you? What are you giving up? Because we only have so much time and energy, and I talk about that a lot in my book, is that time and energy are precious resources. And so if we're spending our time doing some one thing that we feel like this is an expectation of me, or I feel like I should be doing it, then that's time we could be spending doing something else.

Marli Williams [: 00:29:02

Yeah.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:29:03

And even just noticing how that feels like, how does it feel to fulfill that obligation that you didn't really want to do? It doesn't feel good. Well, it probably doesn't feel good to the person who you're fulfilling the obligation for either. Like, if we do things out of guilt, people notice not to add more guilt to that, but just there are impacts, there are consequences, and we're diminishing our own power and authority to really make decisions that are going to be in our best interests. And I really believe that people are, as a whole, are good people. And we really all want to serve and help. And when we are our best selves, we can do that better. So one of the things they teach us in our medical training, it's a little tongue in cheek. But whenever a code, so code blue, you know, somebody's heart stops, who's the first pulse that you check? And the answer is check your own.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:29:58

Like, not check the patients. But we have to be calm and in control of the situation, otherwise we can't direct the team, we can't help that patient. It's the put your oxygen mask on first example. So I think even in the context of somebody that's a colleague or somebody that can be a little bit more objective, which is why I love coaching, or if that's a journaling process or a meditative process or whatever that looks like to help understand that if we're making a choice and saying yes to one thing, then we're saying no to something else. And what is that something else? And what's the payoff? How does it feel to us? What's the impact on us and on those around us.

Marli Williams [: 00:30:39

Yeah. I think that that self reflection piece is so important. Like you were saying, it's like, oh, and can we look at that through a lens of curiosity rather than judgment? Right. Of like, huh, I sat on the couch and worked today. I wasn't as productive as I am when I sit at my desk. Good to know. Instead of like beating myself up or you know, like, I think I have a pretty strong inner critic and can we can be our own worst enemy when it comes to productivity and like efficiency and getting things done and work and all of that stuff. And it's like, where does that work? We bring in that self compassion from awareness from that place of like, okay, am I, am I paying attention to what's working, what's not working? Am I aware of my energy and am I, am I feeling drained and depleted and checking in with yourself and like, what do I need to re.

Marli Williams [: 00:31:34

Energize to nourish myself? Whether that's getting a good night's sleep or spending time with friends or going for a walk. Like it's gonna look different for everybody. But I think knowing what those things are for you when your cup is empty or low, what are the things that can fill it and do you know what those things are? And then giving yourself that permission and seeing doing those things as essential to being a good doctor, nurse, leader, person, boss, whatever. It's like because again, when I'm, when you're, when I, how I say is like when you're fully charged, when you're fully resourced, you are way more effective at what you do. And so it's like seeing that again, they're not mutually exclusive. And sometimes I think we have that either or mindset. Either I'm like a good employee or a good boss or a good leader because I'm working this many hours a week and I'm showing up for my team and I'm da, da, da, da da, even though I'm exhausted or maybe people aren't going to see me as a good leader or a good boss or a good. Whatever I do because I'm taking time off or vacation or people are going to think I'm lazy.

Marli Williams [: 00:32:45

So it's kind of like, what's the story that we tell ourselves about that and paying attention to those things. And I, I always say, like, once we become aware of that, then we can make different choices that feel more inspiring, more empowering, more nourishing. And I'd be curious. I'm like, I'm like, what Would a mantra be or like a belief that would help people kind of like show up for themselves differently around? You know, I could see like, like a negative belief would be people that take vacation are lazy or people that call in sick, don't care about the team or whatever. Right. Like they're selfish. Like it's selfish to take time off as a belief. So it's kind of like just to like what could be like an empowering belief around for people to give themselves permission to show up for themselves in that way?

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:33:43

Yeah. One that's helped me is like, I'm human and I need rest. I'm human. I need nourishing food. I'm human. I need X, Y or Z. Yeah.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:52

We are not AI robots.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:33:54

We are not AI robots. Not yet.

Marli Williams [: 00:33:56

Not yet. Not yet.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:33:57

But I love what you said about the coming from it, coming at it from a place of curiosity and not judgment. I mean as a physician we think like scientists. So like it's like collecting data. Right. We're just seeing like, oh, when I had that cookie right before that client call, it's interesting, my energy dropped and last week when I had a bowl of fruit before the client call or something with protein, then I felt more energized. That's interesting. And again, using it as fuel to make different choices and not beat ourselves up. I think the other thing that is so incredible and all of us, regardless of where we are in life, we have influence on other people.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:34:34

People notice what we do is when we start to show up for ourselves, then it sets an example for people around us because then they see the opposite of what they've been seeing. Everybody's been seeing their whole lives. They see somebody who's putting themselves first, showing up for themselves, advocating for themselves and they're like, oh well, if that person can do it, I can too. And then they start to change and show up for themselves. And then other people start to see it and it's just such a huge ripple effect and wide reaching impact that goes far beyond anything we could ever imagine. And it's just so beautiful. And you know, from physicians, their patients are going to see it whether or not they realize it. Their kids are going to see it.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:35:18

Adults of, you know, children of elderly parents, their parents are going to see it like colleagues. Everybody's going to notice and it's going to influence people around you no matter what. It just has to because we're all connected.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:30

We are all connected. And it's like, yeah, whether you're role modeling that for your team for your clients, for your friends, for your family, for your kiddos. And it's like, it's safe for me to show up for myself. And one of my favorite mantras is, when you choose you, others get the best of you.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:35:48

I love that.

Marli Williams [: 00:35:49

And you bring out the best in others. Right? And so it's like reframing. It's like, what do I believe? It's like, oh, self care is selfish. Right. Whatever that story is. And having a more empowering belief. And that for me, it's like, okay, when I choose myself, when I show up for myself, I will bring the best. I will bring my best, and I will bring out the best in others by doing that.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:12

And, like, be. Be a leader. You know, I watched a movie the other day. I loved what they said. It was like, you're not a leader if no one's following you. You're just taking a walk or something like that. Like, you're only a leader if people are following you. And not because they have to, but because they want to.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:30

And sometimes I think leaders are like, they tell people what they should do, but they then themselves aren't doing those things. So that's kind of like that. Leadership from the inside out. Like, whatever I tell people do, like, it's like, check myself. Am I doing that? Like, because we can. All day long, don't check your email after six. Don't. Da, da, da.

Marli Williams [: 00:36:51

And then you're sending emails at midnight, and then so you're showing you're saying something that's different from what you're doing. And it's like, we're out of integrity with that. And so it's like that congruency of the words and the actions are in alignment. This was amazing. I loved it. So many golden nuggets for anybody out there who may feel guilty for showing up for themselves. So I would love for you to share any final words of wisdom you want to leave people with today and then where people can find more, learn about you, your work in the world.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:37:22

Yeah. So I'll. A quote that a coach told me a few years ago is, guilt is for criminals.

Marli Williams [: 00:37:29

I like that.

Dr. Laura Suttin [: 00:37:30

Yes. Thank you. And guilt is not required. That's another one. I can't remember where I heard that from, but. So Dr. Laura Suttin. That's Suttin with an I, O is a more common spelling, but drlaurasuttin.com is my website. I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook. Love to connect, and it's been so wonderful to talk with you today.

Marli Williams [: 00:37:48

Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here and for sharing that. And you know, for those of you out there listening, as I like to say, information without implementation isn't enough. So I hope that you take something that you learned here today and leave here with it so that you can integrate that and apply it to your life. Right? So helping you really show up for yourself so that you can show up and serve an even more powerful way. So if this resonated for you, you love that, you like to share with a friend, rate, review all those fun things. And as always, thank you for joining us here at let's Lead Together.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:27

And until next time, take care.

Marli Williams [: 00:38:33

Thank you for joining us on another inspiring episode of the Marli Williams Podcast. We hope you're leaving here with renewed energy and valuable insights to fuel your leadership, coaching and speaking endeavors. I'd love to invite you to subscribe, rate and review this video podcast to help us reach more aspiring leaders and speakers like you. We have more exciting episodes and remarkable guests lined up, so make sure to tune in next time. Until then, keep leading with purpose, coaching with heart, and speaking with conviction. This is Marli Williams signing off. See you next week.